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Alcoholic beverages in Heaven

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by blackbird, Sep 26, 2002.

  1. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Once again I am completely amazed at your astounding ability to somehow not understand my posts. I have been actively involved in Christian discussion boards on the internet for about six years, and I have never, *ever* had an experience like this. I don't know what it is Murphy, but I have decided to no longer let you make it my main objective in life to explain simple logic to you.

    If you want to discuss what is the definition of "life" and "death" as it refers to grapes in heaven, or how a vowel point added by a Masorete scribe might affect our understanding of the transmission of scripture, or how an alcohol molecule is metabolized, or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, go ahead - but I'm tired of the vain babblings. [​IMG]
     
  2. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    Hank has just made a good point in that Jesus can produce wine in Heaven with or without grapes, I agree. If you are tired of the vain babblings then why not stop practicing them and for once answer Blackbirds point about fermentation being a form of death, if you can't answer it just say so but please stop acting like I am playing a game with you, answer the question. [​IMG]
    Murph
     
  3. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    The following quote is taken from: http://www.ohr.org.il Found on The Ohr Somayach International Home Page. An article describing the Jewish Wedding Ceremony, that ceremony which would have been brought to mind to any Jew hearing our Lord speak of "bride" and "bridegroom" or figurative of the the reference to the Marriage Supper in Rev. 19.7; I believe also alluded to in Matt. 25; 22 and other places. The article answers also toward an understanding of the 70 weeks prophecy I think; visit and read the entire article.

    The point is neither the wine, or the fermentation was considered to be in anyway connected with death, but rather to life.

    This seems to resemble the process by which we are bought. The life begins, is sour, (suffering of Christ), then is a superior product that brings joy and a wonderful taste. Is this not the result of our salvation, which will be realized at the resurrection to the fullest extent?

    God Bless all in your walk and service to Him.

    bro. Dallas
    Glasgow,KY.
     
  4. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    BTW have you checked out the new ad at Baptist Board in the humor section? Alice White wines??? Where did that come from? :eek:

    [ October 05, 2002, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Deacon ]
     
  5. rhoneycutt

    rhoneycutt New Member

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    Wife and I had a 97 Guenoc Cabernet Suavignon tonight, I imagine we will be drinking that in heaven, It is fantastic!
    Russell
     
  6. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    Don't be drunk with wine but filled with the spirit. Sounds like the wine was great why would a person even need the spirit after that experience.
    Murph
     
  7. rhoneycutt

    rhoneycutt New Member

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    Don't be drunk with wine but filled with the spirit. Sounds like the wine was great why would a person even need the spirit after that experience.
    Murph
    </font>[/QUOTE]Murph
    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    You missed the point
     
  8. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    Thank goodness, by the way what was the point?
    Murph [​IMG]
     
  9. pastorbill

    pastorbill New Member

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    Why would God Almighty state clearly in Pro 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise"
    The King James Version and then 'seemingly' condone it in the NT? also, note the word "wine" is never used in the last supper account it is "the cup" or the "fruit of the vine" the last supper co-incided with the passover at which time no leaven or anything fermented was to be in the house.
     
  10. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Sometimes Juniors know more than Seniors!

    Your friend always,
    Blackbird
     
  11. Dr. L.T. Ketchum

    Dr. L.T. Ketchum New Member

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    Social drinking has become the line drawn in the sand between what some Christians view as radicalism and realism. To some degree it is. However, the question must be raised that in an abnormal and dysfunctional society shouldn’t much of what Christians practice be viewed as radical?

    Why Christians continue to raise the issue of a right to use alcohol is beyond me. Alcohol is a mind altering drug that is categorized as a depressant. That alone should end the argument. Why would anyone (let alone a Christian) want to take a drug that takes away physical coordination, reduces mental capabilities proportionately to the amount consumed, destabilizes inhibitions and moral restraints causing a person loss of control and on the top of all that, it is addictive with a history of destroying lives, marriages and families?

    Alcohol is our society’s first instance of the legalization of drugs. It was not legalized because it was harmless, but because it was impossible to enforce the laws against it. What has the decision to give up on the fight against the use of alcohol cost our society? That would be almost impossible to determine when you consider how many families and succeeding generations have been destroyed by alcohol use. Nine out of ten accidental deaths and suicides are alcohol related, including most vehicle accidental deaths.

    We could give you statistics that would stagger your mind, but we won’t. These statistic are a matter of historical and sociological history. The evidence is all too real.

    Is there such a thing as sin in moderation? What is normal?

    Abstention from the use of alcohol in this society is touted as abnormal and radical. How do we determine what normal is? Is normalcy determined by majority rule within a society? Is normalcy determined by what is commonly accepted and practiced within a society?

    Normalcy originally meant the highest standard for something. Today that definition is reduced to what is common or acceptable because everyone is doing it. As Christians, we should realize there is only one absolute standard for normalcy, the Word of God. Scripturally normal was synonymous with holiness. Both terms described the highest standard.

    The priesthood of the believer

    In 1 Peter 2:5-9, God describes all believers as a “holy priesthood,” a “royal priesthood” and “an holy nation, a peculiar people.” “Holy” signifies a people distinctively set apart from the world, and its practices, for God’s peculiar service.

    “Priesthood” distinguishes all believers as a representative people. Believers are intended to represent God to this world in character and actions.

    A “holy priesthood” has divinely ordained limitations upon it (see Lev. 10:8-10). “Wine or strong drink” (any drink fortified with added alcohol or another drug) defiled the consecration of the priest. In fact, it was such a serious offense to God that He gave a death warning against it (“lest ye die”).

    According to verse 10, the use of wine or strong drink would hinder a priest from being able to distinguish between the “holy and unholy” and “between the clean and the unclean.” God did not request moderation. He demanded abstention.

    To function as a Priest before God the believer constantly requires sharp senses and astute spiritual discernment. Spiritual discernment is the minute by minute necessity for the survival of personal holiness in a world that is constantly bombarding us with choices that could effect us, our families and many others for the rest of their lives, perhaps for eternity. Wine or strong drink could result in our being “deceived.” That person is not “wise.”

    God’s condemnation of the use of alcohol is consistent throughout Scripture. In Jer. 35:5-8 the Rechabites were a family of priests who had vowed to maintain the sanctity of their priesthood when others had defiled themselves with wine.

    Hab. 2:15 states; “Woe unto him that giveth his neighbor drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also.” God’s curse (“woe“) was upon anyone who gave someone alcohol for a beverage.

    In Isaiah 28:1-8 the use of alcohol by the children of Israel brought God’s curse upon them. It is clear that in the O. T., the use of alcohol by anyone (especially the priesthood) was absolutely forbidden. Today all believers are priests before God.

    Did Jesus Create Alcoholic Wine at the Marriage Feast ?

    The answer to this question is NO!!! Unequivocally, NO! If He did, He broke the law that He came to fulfill and we cannot be saved. Our salvation is absolutely dependent upon the sinlessness of Jesus Christ (see 2 Cor. 5:21).

    The word “wine” in the N. T. is translated from the Greek word OINOS. Only the context can determine if it refers to fermented or unfermented wine. The marriage feast (John 2:1) to a devout Jew was a holy celebration and would not be defiled with lewdness or drunkenness. It was the third day of the feast which frequently went on for seven days. If alcoholic wine was used, drunkenness would have been rampant by this time.

    The custom of the day was to take wine and dilute it three to one and sometimes five to one as the celebration went on and the wine began to run out. In verse 10 the wine that Jesus created was as the undiluted, or fresh juice. Fresh squeezed grape juice has no effectual alcohol content.

    Didn’t Jesus Drink Wine at the Last Supper?

    Yes He did, but the question is not if He drank wine. The question is was the wine He drank alcoholic? The last supper was the celebration of the Jewish Passover Feast. The necessity to purge out of their households all forms of leaven or fermentation is detailed in Exodus 12:15-19.

    In Exodus 34:25 God details, “Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.” In Matt. 26:29 the “cup” was called the “fruit of the vine.” It is not OINOS (the generic term for wine), but is a group of three Greek words which was a phrase for “freshly squeezed grape juice,” unfermented.

    Jesus drank “wine,” but the wine He drank was “new wine” or the “fruit of the vine.” It was freshly squeezed grape juice.

    Didn’t Paul Tell Timothy To Drink Wine?

    The Greek word translated “wine” is again oinos and does not presume an alcohol content. The quality of water in the Mid-East was always questionable. Timothy apparently had some type of stomach ailment that was aggravated by the water. So Paul encourages Timothy to (literally), “Drink not water only.” The idea was the common practice of mixing grape juice with the water.

    It cannot be concluded that the “wine” Timothy was instructed to mix with the water was alcoholic. In fact, it would be a contradiction against interpretation of Jewish practice to drink alcoholic wine. To insure extreme care in this area, wine (grape juice) was watered down as much as five parts water to one part wine.

    Also, he was to do so for medicinal reasons, “for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.” Even its use was not encouraged as a beverage.

    “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.” Proverbs 20:1
     
  12. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic <img src=/cc2.jpg>

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    Ketchum, as much as there is to say about ......... of much of your post, it suffices to quote Proverbs 31:6-7 -- Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter. Let him drink and forget his poverty And remember his trouble no more.

    [ October 11, 2002, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: ChristianCynic ]
     
  13. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Brother 'Cynic!!

    The Doctor is in his office--

    Are you on your "Death Bed?"

    Do you not have one dime to your name?

    Are you in misery?

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  14. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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  15. ChristianCynic

    ChristianCynic <img src=/cc2.jpg>

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    Fantastic! And the turtle in in his shell.

    Are you on your "Death Bed?"

    No, I sleep on a foam mattress-- which I am not on as I type this.

    Do you not have one dime to your name?

    No, I don't. I just checked and I have 4.

    Are you in misery?

    No, in Texas.
     
  16. Jim Ellis

    Jim Ellis New Member

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    If there's one thing I cannot stand, it's a drunkard! Although I don't like wine, I love good grape juice! But as for being spiritually minded, let me be totally intoxicated with being with and in Jesus any day!
    WOW! I LOVE YOU JESUS! MAN OH MAN, HIGH ON JESUS! YES!!
     
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