...all things to work together...

It doesn't mean that God "caused" something, but God used the event to our good. He caused the good.
For instance, God didn't cause Joseph's brothers to sin, but he caused their sin to be for Joseph's good and ultimately (in His grace) for his brother's good as well.

It's a comforting verse to those who are going through terrible situations, knowing that through all the bad stuff, God will "cause" something good to come from it.

 

I believe the"good" is what is good from God’s perspective not human perspective. To often we look at good from our perspective and I believe we miss what is being taught here.
As William Newell tell us on this verse:
"We have been dealing in the first part of the chapter with the human will and its consent to walk by the Spirit. Not so from the 28th verse to the chapter’s end. It will be all God from now on!"

 

Roman’s 8:28 is a good descriptor of prevenient grace and clearly makes note of a “condition” (for those that love God).

This condition is about “influence and response” and not the “cause and effect” that those who read through Calvinist/Determinist glasses would impose on the meaning of this verse and go about insisting it is a proof-text for their determinist’ doctrine .

God causes all things to work “together” (describes influence and response) for the good.

To those who are called according to His *purpose. This speaks of God’s promise of grace through faith, for love of the Truth (the condition again noted: love of Truth/God) from before the foundation of the world. (*John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 12:32 - And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw “all” men unto me.)

Roman’s 8:28 needs to be interpreted in light of all scripture for God’s purpose to be understood properly: 1Jn 2:2 – “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the “whole” world.” – Another verse which “many” (Determinists) attempt to force fit into suggesting God’s grace is based on cause and effect pre-selection of the specially predestined elect rather than God’ righteous judgment concerning influence and response (for those that love God).

Hope that helps. :saint:

 

I dont understand what your saying here so could you define it better?

 

Sometimes the 'good' is not what we expect!






God has a wonderful plan for your life.

Rob

 

He is saying that we cannot use that text to "prove" that God has predetermined who of us get saved, but that God will save and work out things for those who have 'freely chosen" christ!

That God is sovereign, but that he is NOT as we cals see it, but in that He work according to how we respond to him first!

 

If divine sovereignty must somehow be accommodated to human capability, then how can it be considered sovereignty?

 

I don't think any of us can figure it all out.

Bad things happen. Did God cause it? I don't know. But God does not tempt us to sin. That is clear and written in scripture. We cannot see the end the way that God can. That's why we need faith. Without it we cannot please God. But somewhere down the road, we are promised that it will be for our good if we love God. It's hard to wait in the midst of trials. I've been in waiting mode for a few years now. But God hasn't given up on me, so I won't give up on Him. :godisgood:

 

No that doesn't help. Don't turn this thread into another Cal vs. non-Cal debate.

Alcott asked a good question. It has nothing to do with determinism.

 

I don't get it.

 

:applause::thumbs:

 

Did God forget the martyrs that sacrificed their lives for the gospel?
Did they think that martyrdom happened for their good?

The promise that scripture makes assures us that God is in control - not that we will like or even understand why things happen.

Rob

 

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Paul maybe is looking back on past experiences as one who has proven salvation and declares, and we know as in verse 38 when he said i am persuaded. He knows and he is persuaded that all things when put together will work for our good and Gods glory. Why does Paul have confidence in the providence of the Lord ? Because nothing can seperate us from the love of Christ Jesus and in all these things we are more than conquerours through him that loved us.

 

God declares in that passage that all things work together for the good for those who are His.

He said it, He meant it, and I have consistently experienced it

Glory to God!

 

God is in complete control of every atom in His universe, and He has them all working toward His ordained purpose.

Every single providence is important and it is our duty to meditate on it.
One godly pastor said it this way...

Providence is a good diary, but a bad road map:thumbs:


Everyone should read and study this helpful writing by John Flavel:thumbs:

 

Hello AMYG,
When someone mistakes Gods ordained plan and providence which he has done in love,for the heathen concept of what philosophy calls determinism/ fatalism.....the person doing this departs from truth and goes into darkness missing the blessing of what God is offering as comfort to His children.

 

It’s those glasses you are reading and interpreting through; they are distorting your perception. God’s Sovereignty is not based in a form of “Deterministic Sovereignty” but is a form of “Providential Sovereignty”. When one gets too wrapped up in supporting systematic must fit traditional theologies of men they have a tendency to get somewhat spoiled and arrive at empty and logically meaningless and thereby untruthful doctrines.

 

How do you know? You psychic or something?

When someone goes about talking about God causing both good and evil, unchangeable things and God’s control in all things in the world He Divinely designed with purpose being only deterministic, well, ahh, that makes it a Cal/nonCal issue. I’d suggest you re-read the Op to better discern what you're apparently turning a blind eye towards.

…and this is a problem related to Deterministic thought and it is rooted in systematic Calvinist teachings leading to a belief in of Divine Sovereignty to be "Deterministic" sovereignty.

When I address an issue, such as a person’s display of a lack of hope for something or someone and/or one coming across as attempting to shuck off personal responsibilities to make change and/or discounting that their responses to Divine influences has “real” value while foregoing that their actions may indeed lead to “un-predetermined” blessings from God according to His judgment in the matter, in “real” time…well, I like to get directly to the roots of such problems which guided those beliefs and causes such misunderstandings.

If that’s alright with you...?