Amazed By Grace?

believe the "gracious" work of God is the Cross, and the Gospel tells us about that work/act of His Grace!

 

Since trust in the Lord, God does not consider work how are we not saved by grace?

Since it is the choice of God to save those who trust in His Son how is it that it is man's discision or will we are saved?

If it is not grace then we would have to pay our own debt for our sin which is death.

This is what faith teaches us that we are saved by grace through faith.

 

Just read the quotes again and you will see that its both, not one or the other as you seem to think. You are the one who said things like "faith has nothing to do with it," which is completely unbiblical and not even Calvinistic scholars would agree with on on that point.

We are saved by Grace through faith. Not one of those non-Calvinists who posted in that thread would disagree with this point as evidenced in the quotes I provided.

 

Of course I agree that the work on the cross is a part of that gracious work, but don't you also affirm that God is the one who graciously inspired the gospel, preserved the gospel and sends it to "every creature?"

 

The first sentence contradicts the last. If you can't see that it is "both/and" not "either/or" I don't think anything I can say will help change that. Would it help if I quoted Calvin or some other Calvinistic scholar to point out your error? Would you listen to them?

 

Can you reconcile your statement above with Paul's statement in Rom 5:2: "By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God."

Thank you.

 

If you really meant what you said when you said faith had nothing to do with your salvation, then I cannot retract my statement. That view is completely unbiblical. Faith is essential to one's salvation, even Calvinists affirm this. Maybe you just misspoke or could offer more clarity to your intent?

 

Jesus said exactly that. Twice!

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

 

If my faith doesn't save me...why are we told the lack of our faith damns us (John 3:18)?

 

It is actually not Grace or Faith, it is Grace and Faith. Again a mathematical lesson, in "or" statements only one of the "sides" must be satisfied in order for the statement to be true (accurate). In "and" statements, both statements are required to have a truth value for the statement to be true (valid and accurate). Without God's Grace salvation does not exist (Null Set, division by zero etc) Without faith God will not grant salvation as testified by numerous scriptures.

 

I fully understand her faith did not save her, Jesus did, but Jesus will not save you unless you trust him.

I gave the analogy the other day of flying a plane, trying to land. You do not have the ability to fly a plane, so you are going to crash and kill yourself if you try to land. Jesus sits beside you and says, "Trust me, and I will get you down safely." Now you must decide, do you continue to try to land the plane and kill yourself, or do you let him take over and land the plane? You can't help him, or you will crash. You must decide to completely let go and let him take control of the plane. You cease from all effort and just go along for the ride.

This is trusting, this is believeing, placing yourself in Jesus's hands and depending on him. You do the trusting, he does the saving.

 

I think I understand your passion regarding God's grace, just try to understand that those who add the dimension of faith, do so with the most profound sense of awe and gratitude at God's Grace in the matter of salvation. They (we) are not arguing "faith" in any way as a matter of pride thinking....."we (I) did this". Just try to accept this as humbly as I can express it. None of us have ANYTHING to be prideful about.

 

I fully understand her faith did not save her, Jesus did, but Jesus will not save you unless you trust him.

I gave the analogy the other day of flying a plane, trying to land. You do not have the ability to fly a plane, so you are going to crash and kill yourself if you try to land. Jesus sits beside you and says, "Trust me, and I will get you down safely." Now you must decide, do you continue to try to land the plane and kill yourself, or do you let him take over and land the plane? You can't help him, or you will crash. You must decide to completely let go and let him take control of the plane. You cease from all effort and just go along for the ride.

This is trusting, this is believeing, placing yourself in Jesus's hands and depending on him. You do the trusting, he does the saving. But if you do not let go of the controls and completely trust him, you are going to crash and kill yourself.

Can you see how trusting is not a work? It is a ceasing of all work and self effort, Jesus does all the work.