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America Freedom To Fascism Authorized Version

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Dec 29, 2006.

  1. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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  2. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member

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    Very intersting.
    And the irony is that with all the complaining about taxes these last few decades, all the blame is always directed the opposite direction at the poor and other "programs", rather than rich bankers (who many believe "deserve" everything!)
     
  3. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member

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    Which really means some believe they(rich bankers, whoever they are) "deserve" nothing.

    Covetousness is unbecoming.
     
  4. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    False dichotomy - it is not all or nothing.
     
  5. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member

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    Covetousness is still unbecoming.

    It amazes me that so many Christians feel they have a right to money that is not theirs, and complain about it so often.
     
  6. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    So is using strawmen.
     
  7. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member

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    That's handy.:thumbs:
     
  8. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    So..........what are you going to do about it?

    I have known about this Fascisim for years but I am not too kean on getting shot or imprisoned any time soon.

    Facisim is alive and well in the "good ol' USA" and has been doing quite well for Itself long before Hitlers goons ever showed up on the world stage..


    "We are a Christian nation......" blah blah blah.
     
  9. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    Knowledge is power.
     
  10. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

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    Yes, me too. I find it so amazing that all these Christians out there are blubbering about evil taxes. Guess what, the Bible said "render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s", not "begrudgingly render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, all the while moan and complain about how unfair or unconstitutional the taxes may be". For that matter, can someone please point out the chapter and verse where secular governments are commanded to spend tax money any certain way? Get real folks even if the government was to entirely scratch any and every social welfare program you would still owe the same amount of taxes, the money would just go to some other program. :rolleyes:
     
  11. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    In this country we are in a unique situation where we are Caesar. Right, a goverment of the people for the people. So in our case Caesar gives us permision to debate about the fairness of taxes and how they are spent.
     
  12. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

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    There is not much debate when Christians claim those who take advantage of social welfare programs are stealing, or even better the government is stealing. That government "of the people, by the people" means all people including those using social welfare programs. We are not Caesar our ELECTED officials are Caesar. No where in the constitution does it say we, (the general public), have a say in how our elected officials spend taxes for the "common defense and general welfare of the United States".
     
  13. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    This is a representative republic, our elected officials represent their consitituants, that is us. We have a voice with our vote and we have a constitutional right to debate and petition our goverment. These are the rules of our govermen, the rules set by our ceaser.

    And I would never suggest that those useing the programs should have no voice or part in the debate.
     
  14. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    How about HERE

    Sounds like I was given a say in what MY goverment does.
     
  15. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

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    Yes, you have right under the 1st amendment to "petition the Government for a redress of grievances", that right, however does not negate the necessary and proper clause of Article I sec. 8, (i.e., Congress has the power "to make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this consitution....."). You may deabte the fairness of taxes to your heart's content but they are necessary to the running of any government.
     
  16. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

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    My point is the "Covetousness is still unbecoming" argument is pretty ridiculous, not to mention unbiblical when it is applied to taxes.
     
  17. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    What did you think of the documentary?
     
  18. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

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    Interesting, as I said in the other thread. I also went on to post how Constitutional history supports a federal income tax and always has, or at least since one was first instituted in 1862.
     
  19. DeeJay

    DeeJay New Member

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    Not many (if any) people are saying we should have no taxes. A lot of us are saying that we are being taxed to much and even more important our tax money is being wasted.

    I want my goverment to do more with less money. They could do it easly if they were forced to spend the money more wisely.

    And again not many are saying there should be NO welfare programs. But I see nothing wrong with wanting to cut the abuse out of the program.

    Trying to say that goverment wealfair programs are biblical is a huge streach. Welfare should come from the Lords church, biblicaly it should be given from the heart with joy, in the name of the Lord.
     
  20. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

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    Couple things...

    1. I did not say welfare programs were biblical or not. They might not be biblical, but they are certainly not unbiblical.

    2. I agree the government should spend tax money more wisely. I do not agree that money is being wasted on social welfare programs. There are certainly more worthy "pork" projects that should be cut out first.

    3. The government has reduced the amount of abuse in welfare programs. Look up PWORA. If you were to look at the average "welfare family" they are a part of the program for an average of 15 months. In order to get into any "welfare" program there is an enormous amount of red tape. It is not as easy as people think to scam the system. Many times the people who claim they know someone who "abuses" the system, there is a reason the person is still in the system. Said person has received an exemption from the stringent rules in place. Said exemptions are NOT easy to get. Many times there are myriads of doctor's notes, case workers have to fill out mountains of paperwork, employers are contacted, family members are contacted, and school counselors and/or teachers are contacted. It's not easy.

    4. I agree that social welfare programs need a complete overhaul. They are inefficient and keep people poor by design. I do not agree they need eliminated or even reduced more than they already are. PWORA restrictions are detrimental to the "ghost towns" popping up across the US due to outsourcing, IMO.
     
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