Amillennialism

I think I put them on a couple of threads, including the Pre--Trib Rapture Affecionados.

Here is what I had:

 

Amillenialist do not believe in an exact 1,000 year reign after the rapture. They believe that Jesus established his earthly kindgom in the Church and that the allusion to the 1,000 year reign basically means a very long time. Amillenialist don't believe in a rapture but a final judgement.

These are the questions I ask myself. Does Daniel speak of a rapture of tribulation that hasn't already occured? I believe most rapturist place a paranthetical period in Daniels week to support their views. All save one prophesy of Daniel's was fulfilled by 70 AD. That one that is still to come is the final judgment. I see Jesus setting up his church in 70 AD and the destruction of the temple was the fulfillment. So then you must consider the NT for future events. I'll get back later with this. However, I'll put together some ideas to present using Daniel and world history. What rapturist must prove is that Jesus didn't establish his earthly kingdom as yet to make their view fit.

 

My reformed brethren say I am. :laugh: Honestly Amy I am still growing in my knowelege and understanding of eschatology.

RB

 

That is very easy seeing as how none of the characteristics of His Kingdom are present today nor have they been since His departure. With Amill's lmost everything prophetically or eschatologically are seen as alagorical and instead of literal. (and if something is written in such a way that is displayed as metaphorical or alligorical, yes it is to be literally taken that way).

Christ Church was established on the day of pentacost not 70 ad. Some might say while Jesus was still here but in either case it was not established some 20+ years later after His assension. We find this most specifically addressed in Acts 2 where all that believed were added to "the church".

As for Daniel, his prophesy is dealing with Israel not the Church and thus does not speak of the rapture but the visible return of Christ where all men shall see him. It is also the reason a gap is seen in the weeks of Daniel since God is no longer dealing with Israel at this time but the Church, yet the Trib is where God will once again deal with Israel.

Pre-mill was the domonant eschatological view of the early church and Amill came about through Augustine (yeah, the same one). Not that it wasn't a view till then, it just was not the dominate theology of the early church, pre and post Nicean fathers. It was not always called pre-mill though but also known as "chiliasm" or "millenarianism".

 

Theologies often make up these new terms to explain why they see something that has not literally come to pass. It should have sufficed to say that Christ's kingdom is here "spiritually" but not yet "literally" as the Bible prophesies. But then again, they deny the literal promises of the Bible so, there you go.

skypair

 

This does not represent the amil position. There is a thousand year reign of Christ, but it isn't a literal thousand years. It's a long period of time represented by the term "a thousand years".

 

Very similar to my own journey from pretrib to amil.

 

Brother, Please forgive me for correcting you, but there are three other places in the Bible where "a thousand years" is used - Psalm 90:4, Ecc 6:6, and II Peter 3:8. But notice how in each case the term is used metaphorically for long periods of time. So we have an a-priori basis for a non-literal interpretation of "a thousand years". Pretribs and premils have to at least agree that a literal interpretation of Rev 20 is not necessary based on this. True?

 

What do you think this means?

or

Rom 14:17
The kingdom starts with Jesus establishment of his church and flows into eternity because

 

Lots of people misunderstand the eschatology of others.

Here is how I see a-mill. I do NOT ascribe to the view point, I am pre-mill. The x-mill belief relates the Second Coming of Christ (SCC) to the Millennial Messianic Reign of Jesus (MMRJ).

(In the following some people use 'literal' and/or 'figurative' in place of 'physical' and 'spiritual' as I have used. I think I use the best terms for 'spiritual' can be 'literal' (but doesn't have to be).

The Pre-millinnial viewpoints have a physical SCC before (the 'pre') the physical MMRJ.

The Post-millinnial viewpoints have a physical MMRJ before the physical SCC (things are going to get better and better and then the Lord will return).

The a-millinnial have two different groups:

1. A physical MMRJ will happen before the spiritual SCC
2. A spiritual MMRJ has happened before a spiritual SCC

(There are other posibilities, but these two are the two I've seen repeatedly here on BB = Baptist Board.)

Those who ascribe to #2 generally consider themselves 'preterists' . But those who take lots of things with figurative/spiritual meanings may call themselves 'mystics'.

Brother DeafPosttrib whom I've visited with from about AD 2000 has the position #1. There are others around who hold position #2.

Here is a writing I wrote eariler. It is a work in process so slap me with some constructive (preferred) criticism (better criticism than 'no comment').

----------------------------
x-mill = x-millennial: the relationship of the Millennial (1,000 year)
Messianic Reign of Christ, and His Second Coming
('pre-' means the Second coming is before the Millenniuml)

x-trib = x-tribulation: the relationship of the tribulation
and the rapture/resurrection ('pre-' means the
rapture/resurrection comes before the Tribulation period)

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward: [this is correct ]

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. physical/literal MK=millennial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Post-trib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(same 12-hour day as: 1. rapture/resurrection
4. physical/literal MK=millennial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Post-trib a-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
(same as 2. Tribulation time)
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(same 12-hour day as: 1. rapture/resurrection
4. spiritual/literal MK=millennial kingdom, in heaven
5. spiritual new heaven & new earth

Done-did preterist a-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection -- already happened
2. Tribulation time -- you are here
3. Second Advent of Jesus event -- already happened
4. spiritual MK=millennial kingdom -- already happened
5. new heaven & new earth -- you are here

 

I can't talk to a Pharisee of the time of Jesus.
But there are Pharisees around today --
New York City is full of them

Over here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City

it says:

I know they consider me a lowly goy (or goylim -
i.e. a gentile) but thanks to the safety of the
internet - a Hasidic Jew (i.e. used to be Pharasees)
can talk to a goy Messianic Jesus Phreaque.

In the early 1990s probably I spake with
a rabbinical student on bulletin boards (bbs)
or chat lines. I asked him: how will you know
Messiah when He comes?

The Daily Sacrifice can be made on the
altar while the Holy Place & Holy of Holies
building is being built (Ezekiel latter chapters
tell how to build and use a Temple - a
temple like has yet to be built).

If someone comes and claims to be the
Messiah (Greek: Christ) and can do these things,
then he will be accepted as Messiah.
But what happens if he is the anti-messiah
(Antichrist)? He will still be followed.

IMHO the Antichrist will renew the Peace
Treaty that Clinton had Arafat and some
Jewish leader sign - a seven year treaty
for the safety of Jerusalem. That
was signed in 1993 (Oct) and expired
in early November 2000 (many though the
world would end then, but it didn't).
God is going to do things on His schedule
but He has shared it with us, once events
start:

IMHO: Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millennial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

So when the Antichrist gets the Temple built
some 3½-years later [probably at the dedication
of the Temple (where the daily sin sacrifice
has gone on for the 3½-years = 1260 days
(see details in the first part of Revelaltion
chapter 11) ] he goes into the Temple and
declares himself as god.

Millions of Jews who watch this on live T.V.
will see that the stone that the builder rejected
is indeed the real Messiah: Messiah Jesus
Ben Yosheph, Ben David, Ben Yudah,
Ben Abraham, etc.; carpenter of Nazereth.
(these are the ones who will protected by
the very Hand of God during the second half
of the Tribulation Period). When they
declare Him Messiah (and Lord) then
He shall become their Savior as well - just
like us gentiles.

 

I use to be Amil but now I'm thinking with the historic and dispensational premil positions.

 

Amy.G,

You say, most Amills do not believe rapture taken place. Not true. Almost every amills believe there will be rapture. I believe there will be literal rapture at Second Advent.

We have to be careful for being labeling amills' beliefs. For example, people think amills are partial or full preterism. But many amills are not either full or preterists. I am not either full or partial preterists.

Let me say something on Matthew 24.

Full/partial preterists saying that Matthew 24 already fulfilled in 70 A.D.

As basic thing, so far I am aware that, all futurists, full, partial prerists agree that Matt. 24:2 already fulfilled in 70 A.D. that the building of Temple was destroyed by Roman Army.

When we come to Matthew 24:15-21. There is split between futurists and full preterists. Full preterists saying Matt. 24:15-21 already fulfilled in 70 A.D. Whilst, futurists saying this is not yet happen, it will be happen in the future seven year of Tribulaiton period.

Partial preterists do agree that Matt. 24:15-21 already fulfilled in 70 A.D.

But, all partial preterists understand Matt. 24:29-31 is not yet occur, it is future event - Second Advent.

Full preterists believe Matt. 24:29-31 already fulfilled in 70 A.D. as spiritualizing Coming of Christ. That why I strong disagree with them. That is false beliefs.

I believe MANY of full preterists are postmills.

I have no idea what position of mill, Grasshopper believes. I am aware that Grasshopper believes ALL prophecies were already fulfilled in 70 A.D. That why he is full preterist.

Later I still promise, I will make post to discuss on Revelation chapter 20.

J.D.,

Yes you are right. I will discuss on verses of O.T. on the examples of 'a thousand' verses.

So, they should be able to understand what 'a thousand' or 'the thousand' years of Revelation 20, is talking about.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Scripture and How to interpret the fulfillment of biblical prophecies.