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Featured An attempt to let Science interpret Scripture

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Revmitchell, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  2. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr. Active Member

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    The Word of God.....ONLY

    Any account of "origins" that departs from or adds too the literal, historical Creation account given in Genesis is untrustworthy. As believers we MUST give God the benefit of any doubt and stick to His Word for our faith. God SPOKE this world and the entire Universe into existence by the Word of His Holy Mouth. His Word was breathed into existence in the same manner. That is a matter of absolute FAITH for the Christian and "science" can neither verify it OR disprove it. People...we need to stick with the Book....DOGMATICALLY. The whole world of unbelievers will go to hell inspite of the Words of our loving and compassionate Creator. Anything I don't understand about the finer points of the origins of my "species" OR the physical world around me will be cleared up for me by my Creator when I stand in His Presence. BUT...for the record...I believe it all happened just like the Bible says it did in Genesis...the scientists and the science books be d*mned!:type:

    Again...If you profess to be a believer...STICK TO THE RIGHT HISTORY BOOK...the Holy Bible (personally I believe that to be the KJV:thumbsup:)

    Bro.Greg:saint:
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The only person around during Creation was God so He is the authority. His creative activity is recorded in Scripture and I believe it. The Epistle to the Hebrews tells us:

    Hebrews 11:3. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.,

    In Genesis we read again and again the Word of God:

    Genesis 1:1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    Genesis 1:3. And God said,

    Genesis 1:6. And God said,

    Genesis 1:9. And God said,

    Genesis 1:11. And God said,

    Genesis 1:14. And God said,

    Genesis 1:20. And God said,

    Genesis 1:24. And God said,

    Genesis 1:24. And God said,

    Genesis 1:26. And God said,

    Genesis 1:28. and God said,

    Genesis 1:29. And God said,

    When God gave the children of Israel the Ten Commandments He told them:

    Exodus 20:1-3, 8-11.
    1. And God spake all these words, saying,
    2. I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
    3. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

    8. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    9. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    10. But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou,
    nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


    Hard to dismiss the Ten Commandments as allegorical!
     
  4. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    As I have said many times, I would far rather He tell me when I see Him face-to-face,
    "I did not mean that (creation timeline or whatever) to be literal." than He say,
    "Look, why did you not believe it as I wrote it? If I had meant for you to understand it non-literal, don't you think I would have given you a clue."

    'Course, to each his own----!!
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Just stop. We may disagree on things but I have always found you to be sincere. At least until now. Paul's reference to allegory was not intended to suggest that the events did not literally happen. We need to be careful of even how allegory is used.
     
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I am getting old and forgetful but just where does Paul use allegory to discuss Creation. Seems like I recall he used Hagar and Sarah in an allegory contrasting the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant.
     
  7. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I regret the way I responded but you've got the spot - Galatians 4.

    Gregory, I’ve looked over many different statements of faith over the years and am puzzled by the ones that simply state they “believe the Genesis account of the creation”.
    Your statement echoed these: “I believe it all happened just like the Bible says it did in Genesis”.

    I respect your statement: Anything I don't understand about the finer points of the origins of my "species" OR the physical world around me will be cleared up for me by my Creator when I stand in His Presence. A good friend of mine says something similar.

    But many of us are much more curious than you!

    In the inspired creation account of Genesis God painted with a broad brush.
    There are many things left unstated; there are even more things that are less than clear.

    If curiosity doesn’t provoke you to further study, then accepting a simple account is just fine.
    But many of us want to know more.

    My education was founded in the field of biology.
    Genetics was just beginning to unfold its vast complexities in the 1970’s.

    Today’s students of biology cannot study genetics without bumping into perplexing questions that challenge simple theories of our origins.

    Those that question the simple reading of Genesis are faithful believers that are convinced that our God is vastly larger than our simple minds can imagination.
    They believe that God performed marvelous works, far beyond what has been written the simple account of creation in Genesis.

    The attempts to explain the phenomena we observe and reconcile it with the written word of God become creation or origin theories.

    If you are satisfied with the simple account offered in scripture that’s fine.
    But when you damn those that desire to seek out the deeper ways that God works, you diminish yourself.

    Rob
     
    #27 Deacon, Nov 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2013
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The problem I have with the attempts to explain what God did in creation is that these attempts generally refuse to let God be God. There are at least three things that Scripture declares about God: He is Sovereign, He is omnipotent, He is omniscient. But many attempts that try to explain the creative activity of God picture Him as One who has to try, try, and try again. If God is God He can speak and it is so. That is what Scripture tells us and not just in Genesis as I showed above and do so again!

     
  9. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    I honestly HONESTLY do not get how you "get this" perspective from those who choose to be curious and investigate God's AWESOME creation from as many vantage points as possible. NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING diminishes God or HIS sovereignty. I believe he is just as AWESOME and SOVEREIGN as do you.
     
  10. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Then why do you believe He let millions of years pass, when He is able to simply speak what He wants into creation? That is absurd, in many opinions expressed here.
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Such as . . . .?
     
  12. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I would like to say one more time. I know, no Greek nor do I know any, Hebrew.

    Many, many, many if not all who post on here are much more educated than I. Myself 1-12, that is it.

    However the very fact that the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to use the word עָשָׂה
    `asah in Ex. 20:8 causes me to believe Genesis 1 is a separate accounting from, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters," onward. From that point onward God renewed, (made) the heavens and the earth.
    In Genesis 1:1 God created בָּרָא bara'

    Let me ask your thoughts concerning other scripture which I believe to be relative to this. I will copy and paste and then ask.

    For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

    But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2 Peter 3:5-7

    What was that flood in verse 6? Was it the flood of Noah? Did the heavens change other than the presence of the rainbow after the flood of Noah? Do you believe the presence of the rainbow is the reason for stating the heavens which now are?

    Does not verse five state the state of the heavens and earth in Genesis 1 and 2 and then Spirit the God came in presence and began to move on the face of the deep (the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament) to bring light divided from the present darkness and to divide the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament:

    Renewing, making in their preset system of order, the heavens and the earth and creating bara' Adam in the image of God in six days and resting the seventh day?

    Does the word of say that did not take place?
    Does it say that is what took place?
    Can that above be a maybe, according to the word of God?

    I also believe when we in this day and age talk with one another of these things we should consider; Just what took place at the tower of Babel?
    What has let's say God permitting the invention of this thing we are all using the computer done to what God did at the tower of Babel relative to what the angel told Daniel in 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    Do you think men all over the world using the little thing like the computer and with even me an uneducated man understanding the difference of words of which I do not know the language from which they come is God allowing knowledge to be increased?

    Is God allowing knowledge that historically could not have been known?

    Another good question might be. Are we trying to rebuild the tower?
     
  13. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Just to be sure, is it your contention that Hagar and Sarah were not real individuals? That the events were not historical?
     
  14. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    For this very reason. Scriptures forth coming.

    Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

    Gal. 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,


    God knows why God has chosen to do things, in time.
     
  15. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, the statement was a response to the statement that non-literal interpretations are heretical - not about the historicity of the women.

    Rob
     
  16. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Then you believe God contradicts Himself, because He clearly, CLEARLY states in Genesis 1 and 2 that He did exactly as I said, speaking creation into existence. There is no basis whatsoever to believe He used evolution. None.
     
  17. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Yes, he most certainly could have, but what He COULD is not the question, it is trying to understand what HE did.
     
  18. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Wrong. He most assuredly did speak creation into existence, in six literal days.
     
  19. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    You tell me why it does not make sense, what is a few billion years to the one who creates "ex nihlio". Did you watch Fr. Spitzers video, I think I posted it in this thread.

    Sorry I did not mean to reply to myself, but rather "thisnumber". :) Age gets me some times.
     
  20. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    OK :thumbs::thumbs:
     
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