An Infidel's Opinion of the Doctrines of Grace

kind of like christians tell the Jews how to interpret Torah?

 

Apples and lawn chairs.

You post is like saying "a professor telling the students how to understand what they are learning". The OT is God's word concealed and NT is it revealed. They missed the Messiah because they did not 'interpret' it right.

Not saying that christians are more learned but that his word has been revealed (especially the OT) to us via His Spirit to us weak and unwise that we might know truth that is hidden from the wise and strong - to tell them what they do not see.

 

You know a lot off people keep quoting Jerome or Augustine who most people here believe were heretics. Jews say that christians have no right telling them how to interprete torah. That seems a reasonable assumption since Torah was their document before it was ours. So it's not really apples and oranges nor by your discription to show how far off topic to you the statement seemed apples to lawn chairs. I said Torah not OT another difference. Just the Pentatuch. Not inlcuding the prophets since one of the Jewish accusations is that Jesus had to rely on the prophets since he was not a perfect representation of what Torah teaches. There is a Jewish belief that the prophets changed what was expected in Torah necissarily.

 

Ummm.. the OT is inclusive of all books that make it up, which means even the Torrah. So no there is no 'difference' as you postulate. You can not have one without the other because each complete the other, just as the NT both reveals and completes the OT.

Additionally there are 'heretics' even among their own Jewish belief system. Also Jesus did not 'only' rely on the prophets but also quoted the Torrah as well. (shows how little they know about what Jesus taught)

Just because a person wants to believe 2+2= 147 does not mean those who 'do' know should keep silent or even worse pretend it will all pan out in the end. Sorry, we who know the truth are compelled by Christ to declare in love such things. Whether they will listen and believe is another matter.

 

Just because you think that the best interpretation of Torah is from the view of Jesus doesn't make it so. I could use your same argument in favor of Islam. Christians and Jews both do not fully understand Torah or even all of the OT because they have not been enlightened by Allah through his prophet Mohammed. What gives Christians a better understanding of Torah than the Jews. Jesus? There was a belief system long in place before Jesus on understanding Torah. Jesus proves that there was a radical shift in idiology with regards to the Torah. Strangely enough of the OT shows that it wasn't the idiology of the Torah that people were having problems with but its implementation which is why the Hillel academy shows a need for a hedge around torah.

 

I'm not arguing what christians believe. I agree with that by the way. I was just making a point as far as how Jews view Christian thoughts toward Torah. However, I will probably be now considered a Jewish apologist.

 

If they are in a text a person is exegeting, they should be treated.

Now the person can send red flags by labeling them Calvinism, if their congregation is not use to the term Calvinism and frowns at it.

But in my case, I just emphasize them with the label of Calvinism attached to any.

 

The primary reason I said that was because of the Statement of Non christians telling christians what to believe about the bible. They have a right to do it as much as christians have a right to tell Jews how to view Torah. Not that I agree but its all about which perspective you're going to use to view the scriptures.

 

No they don't. The scriptures are spiritually discerned and unbelievers do not have the Spirit, so their interpretation is useless.

 

And only Jews should interpret the Torah.

 

Why?.......................

 

Because it's their book. Just like the NT is our book. I'm just following what you are saying. Christians interpret their scriptures by HS. The Jews can say the same thing but what they say is that they have the Oral Tradition handed down by Moses to interpret the Torah. Christians don't have that Oral Tradition so that their interpretation does not agree with Moses and therefore is invalid.

 

So God has blinded us Gentiles so that we are unable to understand His word in the OT? The entire Bible from Genesis to maps is the unfolding of God's redemption of man by Jesus Christ. It's the Jews who do not understand this, not us.

 

Any white ones? :laugh:

 

Yep this is pretty much the Jewish position on the matter. Jews actually don't care how you view the Torah just that you don't teach it to them.

Keep in mind this is the same argument you use against non christians with regard to their understanding the bible.

I have no problem at a non believing person looking at the bible objectively. If that's what they are really doing. I just point out their mistakes.