ANALYSIS: Are evangelicals fractured & losing influence in the public square?

The money going to the national organization is dispersed at the following rate:

http://cpmissions.net/2003/cp missions in action.asp

Approximently 75% goes directly to support missionaries on the ground.

Approximently 20% goes to Seminaries.

Approximently 5% goes to administrative costs.

Your statement that "most of our dollars given to CP go to adimin costs and not directly to help our missionaries" is simply not true.

So, what exactly is your complaint concerning the money given to the CP?

peace to youraying:

 

Libbies do not care about the facts. They just want to bad mouth the convention because conservatives remain in control.

 

I guess preaching Jesus didn't check out his facts.

 

Did not intend to post.

 

First, my post was in response to preachinjesus's comments concerning where the money to the CP went. He said "most" of the money went to admin costs, which clearly isn't close to being true.

He stated he wanted the money to go to missionaries and the seminaries ... which is where approximently 95% of the money goes.

As for the 20% going to the seminaries, I believe it is money well spent. There was a definite need to confront the liberalism found in the seminaries, and that was done.

peace to youraying:

 

That's fine...if you are talking about directly giving to the missions agencies. Yet that is not how the CP works. The Cooperative Program is that most churches give to their state convention which divides up the loot and forwards it along to the national CP.

Few churches give directly to the agencies much less the actual national program. The vast majority of SBC churches give to their state convention which then pools the money, some stays in state, some goes out and sends it along to the national cooperative program.

So before you go off half-cocked...you might want to truly understand what the Cooperative Program is.:thumbs:

 

1975 really? By the way libbies were in control in 75. And nothing you have said here actually repsonds to what I said. Just some personal unrelated rant.

 

I guess my first complaint is that most people don't understand how money is actually given. Take your accusations against me. They are unfounded and uninformed.

So for more info...

check out Bart Barber's great post about this:

For example, in my own state the Florida Baptist Convention (FBC) keeps 60% of money that local FBC congregations give to the CP (If you want to see the percentages of other state conventions, click here). That means that 40% makes its way to Nashville, to be disbursed by the Executive Committee according to budget allocations adopted annually by Southern Baptist messengers. The 2005-2006 allocations stipulate that 50% of all money that does finally make it to Nashville via CP gifts go to the International Mission Board. The North American Mission Board receives 22.79% Most of the remaining money (21.64%) goes to "Theological Education Ministries" (primarily, the 6 Southern Baptist Seminaries).

and farther down the post:

Most Southern Baptists do not realize that this is the way it works because the Cooperative Program is typically promoted as a great way to fund international missions. According to the cpmission website, however, only 36% of the money given to the CP actually made it to Nashville and only 18% of all the money given went to support overseas missions. The lion's share of the money--about 63% on average--is used by state conventions. (emphasis here mine.)


You can find the post here: http://www.founders.org/blog/2005/12/cooperative-program-allocation.html

Now let's consider the point above. The CP report that you listed talks about how the money is DIVIDED UP not how it reaches the missionaries in the field.

You should have read the actual piece before lashing out at me.

The piece doesn't say "Approximently 75% goes directly to support missionaries on the ground."

It says "72.79% goes to Missions Agencies" then specifies that 50% goes to the International Misson Board and 22.79% to the NAMB.

Again THE PIECE DOESN'T SAY what happens to those funds when they HIT the actual agencies!!!

For that information we have to go to the SBC Annual...oh wait I have a copy!
And you can have one too go here: http://www.sbcec.org/bor/2008/default.asp

One of the things you’ll see is that the CP only accounts for about 40% of both agencies actual operating budgets. The Annie Armstrong and Lottie Moon offerings are NOT CP designations.

Of the $150,000,000 that goes to Missions from the CP (mind you this is not the complete amount people in the pews gave to the CP this is after the state conventions got their due) the International Mission Board received about $105,000,000 and the North American Mission Board received about $45,000,000.

Of that money, once it got into the bin it was divided up and used in various ways. One way the International Mission Board supported their overseas missions was through a $44,000,000 budget for stateside administrative fees. The figure for the North American Mission Board figure runs at about $17,000,000.

This is but a tidbit of the actual dollar amounts. Let’s take the top three state conventions in CP giving for both the NAMB and IMB:

Georgia:
IMB- $10,000,000
NAMB- $4,600,000

Alabama:
IMB- $9,781,000
NAMB- $4,458,000

Florida:
IMB- $8,160,000
NAMB- $3,700,000

Now this is the actual amount of CP funds that reach both Missions Agencies is a different story. Alabama’s state budget absorbs 52% of the Cooperative Program funds sent by their churches. (Check their budget on their website) Actual CP donation...48%.
Georgia has a $50,000,000 which the CP missions agencies get 40.63%.
Florida has a 40% goal…which has been reduced in the last several months which comes from an overall state budget of just over $37,000,000.

Now if we take these monies and realize that not all of them reach the IMB or NAMB then we have a problem. The problem is amplified when we take into account the administrative costs and fees. It is hard to truly locate a precise number since the agencies are reluctant to publish executive or employee compensation details. I doubt $5,000,000 goes to buying staplers...but we don't know.

Therefore...drum roll please...the actual amount of monies given to the Cooperative Program that reach missionaries is not where it should be.

So there ya go.

 

This isn't a conversative verse liberal thing for me btw. If anything our seminaries need more money and money resources given directly to their faculties and students. When I was at Southwestern my tution costs doubled in three years. That is ridiculous.

If anything we need more money in our seminaries and more money going directly to our missionaries. We have absolutely the best missionaries in the world out in the field. When I talk to them on furlough or when I'm out ministering with them I see their passion and see their struggles. We need to reinvent our missions agencies.

 

Then, your complaint is with your state convention, not with the SBC. Your state convention should give its messengers an annual budget.

Please give an example of an agency receiving CP funds that is refusing to give executive or employee compensation details.

peace to youraying:

 

I agree and out church just voted to reduce the amount given to Missions. What I hate about my Church's business meetings is that they budget with an expectation of increase no matter what the state of the economy and financial abilities of the members are. I always speak against this type of "hopeful" outlook and try to base and increase on something tangable. I would even regard a statment that if we base the median income in this area on this amount and then; based on past performance; expect an increase in membership by this amount with the typical decrease in membership by this amount figured in; then we can expect to see approximately this amount of money coming in. But we don't get this. We get a % increase of what they think is reasonable. And As I've been proven over and again. The income does not match what they budget for which really puts some of the ministry in serious problems. Just had to get that off my chest. Thanks.

 

Did you read my post? I'm talking about a system wide issue.

Seriously read, digest, then reply.

You do none of us favors when you take info like the CPMission.com article and misunderstand its meaning. Oh, and don't truncate my statements.

All of them. Oh and please do note that I included employee data too.

 

What's really sad is that the people who were so quick to affirm the misinformation from the CPMissions.org site will tuck tail and deny it was minunderstood.

I was not a fan of new regime when they came in. After graduating I asked to be taken off the mailers for the chapel. It is an enormous boondoggle that we should use the money for actual ministry. Its a mausoleum to the excesses of the Resurrgence.

I don't know about anything before the 1980s. I don't know any of the people. I do know some people who got blackballed because they didn't play nice with the new leadership. One guy lost his church, his job, and his health because he wouldn't allow one of the new guys to use his pulpit to beat up on those whom he disagreed with.

I just don't get the building thing. I challenge anybody to walk into the Georgia Baptist World Headquarters and not say its ostintatious or a world of crappulence set in marble.

We need a complete overhaul. Our convention's soul depends on it.