Another NIV error

Yes, "witness" and "record" are the same. The Greek word in both verses is martureo (Strong´s #3140) and is translated in the AV as "bear witness" (25 times), "testify" (19), "bear record" (13), "witness" (5), "be a witness" (2), "give testimony" (2), "have a report" (2), misc 11 times.

Yes, it is a fair rendering of the same Greek word in the NIV.

 

Askjo: // NIV said that Jesus' testimony is valid (John 8:14)
AND not valid (John 5:31). See here how these passages
contradicted each other.//\

KJV said that Jesus' testimony is valid (John 8:14)
AND not valid (John 5:31). See here how these passages
contradicted each other.

Askjo: //Are witness and record same meaning on these passages in the KJV?//

Askjo: //Are testimony and testimony same meaning on these passages in the NIV?//

Yes to both questions.
Both the KJV and the NIV are correct, perfect, inerrant, and inspired.
Your understanding and/or my understanding of the KJV and/or
the NIV are NEVER perfect, inerrant, nor inspired but might
occasionaly be correct.

The three major elements of Understanding the Bible:
CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.

It seems easy to me that in John 5:31 Jesus is quoting the
common saying of the time:

John 5:31 (KJV1611 Edition):
If I should beare witnesse of my selfe,
my witnesse were not true.

The purpose of Jesus is to show other witnesses to Himself.

IT seems easy to me that in John 8:14 that Jesus is
saying even though the maxim of John 5:31 may be true,
He is indeed giving correct witness of Himself.

The same understanding come through many different versions
Including such Rejected pseudo-Bibles as the Message
and the NWT. In fact, the NWT is even very much clearer
than the KJV:

John 5:31 (NWT = New World Transaltion)
If I alone bear witness about myself,
my witness is not true.

So the NWT pseudo-Bible is clearer here in
today's language than is the KJV which appears to
make Jesus contradict Himself.

One's misunderstanding of the KJV doesn't invalidate
the NIV -- nay, not one bit

 

What is "witness"?

What is "record"?

 

Simple:

'witness' means the record;
'record' means a witness. :tonofbricks:

 

Get your dictionary! What did it say? Type here!

 

The evidence is in Strong's:

G3141
μαρτυρία
marturia
mar-too-ree'-ah
From G3144; evidence given (judicially or generally):
- record, report, witness,

Unfortunately, I have no Dictionary made in
the last 25 years.

 

It makes no difference which of the valid English word possibilities were chosen by these translators. They all represent the same Greek word.

There may be some shades of meaning in the English words, but its still only one word in the original language.

 

Askjo, as usual you have made a false claim for which there is absolutely no foundation. Why do you continually make such wild claims that are so very easily shown to be in error?

The Greek marturia is rendered in John 5:31 as "witness" by the KJV translators and as "testimony" by the NIV translators. In John 8:14 marturia is rendered as "record" by the KJV translators and as "testimony" by the NIV translators. In his case the NIV translators showed more consistency in translating the Greek than did the KJV translators. It doesn't matter which version you read these verses in - the KJV or the NIV. In your errant claim of contradiction in the NIV you also condemn the KJV because it has the same supposed contradiction.

In John 5:31 the Greek ou alethes is rendered as "not true" in the KJV and as "not valid" in the NIV. In John 8:14 the Greek alethes is rendered as "true" in the KJV and as "valid" in the NIV.

You claim that in the NIV John 5:31 and John 8:14 contradict one another. If this is true, then the two verses also contradict one another in the KJV. Actually, when you read the two verses in context you find that they are relating two separate incidences in which Jesus was talking and that there is absolutely no contradiction.

Askjo, this is yet another case where you condemn the NIV (or some other MV) for doing exactly what the KJV does. Your claim is totally unsubstantiated and, as usual, is so very easily refuted by looking at the Greek to see what the writer really said. In the future you will save yourself much embarassment if you will check the validity of some of these claims before you lay them out for all to see. You damage the credibility of your own arguments when you make such easily disproven and erroneous claims.

 

Keith M: //Askjo, this is yet another case where you condemn
the NIV (or some other MV) for doing exactly what the KJV does.
Your claim is totally unsubstantiated and, as usual, is so very
easily refuted by looking at the Greek to see what the writer really
said. In the future you will save yourself much embarassment
if you will check the validity of some of these claims before you lay
them out for all to see. You damage the credibility of your
own arguments when you make such easily disproven and erroneous claims.//

Amen, Brother Keith M -- this is so but sad

 

No dictionary???? You do not know what "witness" means and what "record" means.

 

Askjo, you're quibbling over English words. But the Bible was not written in English. It was written in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. The question is not what English words mean. The question is what words were written in the original languages and what did those words mean? You have already been shown that the Greek marturia is rendered as both "testimony" and "record" by the KJV translators. The NIV translators were more consistent than the KJV translators in that they used the word "testimony" in both John 5:31 and John 8:14. What more do you want from us? We cannot make you believe the truth since you are so unwilling to accept it - all we can do is show you the truth and let it testify for itself against your errant claims. One more time for your benefit - there is no more contradiction in the NIV renderings of John 5:31 and John 8:14 than there is in the KJV rendering of the same verses. Please try to comprehend this very simple and basic truth. Once you get past the simplest things, then we can graduate to even deeper and meatier matters. Until you can grasp the basics, there is no need to even try to go on to other truths.

 

Well, these translators selected one word on 2 passages causing contradiction with the doctrine of Jesus Christ. From Genesis to Revelation, all passages must not contradict each other. If they contradicted each other, God contradicts Himself.

You see, you gave one word on 2 passages in the NIV. See my answer to other poster above.

These 2 English words from a same Greek word – no plm, but I disagree with your answer my question by saying, “Yes.” What does “record” mean? What does “witness” mean?

False claim? No!

No plm! I understand that. The designation is that the NIV has “testimony” -- only ONE word that is valid and not valid on 2 passages.

Yes, you are right. The NIV said one word, “testimony” that contradicts with the doctrine of Jesus Christ on 2 verses saying “valid” and “not valid.”

Disagree! The KJV did not say ONE word, but it said 2 words. When the KJV said 2 words, then these verses did not contradict each other.

I stand with the statement: Jesus' testimony is valid (John 8:14) and not valid (John 5:31) in the NIV. Only ONE word!!!! I did not see how my claim is totally unsubstantiated and how the credibility of my argument be damaged. The KJV translators were very wise to select right words on 2 verses because they translated 2 words from the same Greek word on John 5:31 and 8:14.

Did I say that?

You have a GOLD star on your forehead.

Well, suppose, from English to Greek and from Greek to English are how would you understand the word or any words when you would translate them. Let me give you example:

From English to Greek:

Love – storge, phileo, agape, eros. Are these Greek words same meaning?

Disagree.

 

What you're saying, then, is that since the Greek used only one word, the Greek contradicted itself?

 

Past page five - nothing new here.

Closed