Another Riplinger video...

[Ed Edwards]

Eliyahu: //NKJV is not the accurate update of KJV
in many verses as we read Acts ... 12:4 ( Easter vs Passover).//

Then neither is the Geneva Bible:

Act 12:4 (Geneva Bible of 1587):
And when he had caught him, he put him in prison,
and deliuered him to foure quaternions of souldiers
to be kept, intending after the Passeouer to bring him
foorth to the people.

 

[Eliyahu]

I covered this thoroghly in my post #13 early in this thread.

Again I listened to her, and noticed she was not mentioning exact wordings there. She just mentioned " there is a word for Sober there in Titus 2:5" which is quite correct. She didn't pronounce any Greek word in that sentence. She was talking about 1 Tim 2:9, and said "politeness" instead of moderation, because the addess was like a free talking, without the precise quote based on the Greek NT. Again, in case of 1 Tim 2:9, NKJV didn't reflect the meaning of Sowphrosunhes by replacing sobriety with moderation. She did very well by pointing out the delicate differences between 2 words. If you don't mind whatever words, it may not be important. But I wonder how the video was obtained. Is it sold and purchased? The style of the address is like a free talking without reading any preparation. If it was taken secretly, it may have tresspassed the private right, even though someone said it is publicly distributed. The contents is just like a free presentation, and she is saying some word like... and so on, she didn't claim the accuracy of the Greek background words, but was focussing the English differences. It may be because the audience was neither the scholars nor the people with the knowledge of Greek or Hebrew, and she didn't prepare the address for the accurate debate. Nevertheless, her points are quite OK in those cases which I mentioned.
That is the problem with the shooting behind!
Your accusation is dismissed.

 

[Eliyahu]

Eliyahu: //NKJV is not the accurate update of KJV
in many verses as we read Acts ... 12:4 ( Easter vs Passover).//

Then neither is the Geneva Bible:

Act 12:4 (Geneva Bible of 1587):
And when he had caught him, he put him in prison,
and deliuered him to foure quaternions of souldiers
to be kept, intending after the Passeouer to bring him
foorth to the people.

Ed, I was not talking about Geneva Bible, though it may have done its role very well at that time.

Read Luther's Bible, you will find " Folks Festival" instead of Passover there.

 

[Disgruntled UK Baptist]

Arthur Farstad who was the chair of the translation committee for NKJV, and another key person Zane Hodges were the attendants of PB assembly in Dallas, until Arthur was called by Lord in 90's.

Fair enough. That does rather make me wonder why the NKJV is not more popular in PB circles.
William McDonald is a good commander of Greek.
You would know Darby translated NT from Greek and OT from Hebrew.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, Darby of course. He started as an Anglican, didn't he? I was thinking of modern day PBs.

I checked the video again, I notice Gail was not mentioning Sober in the first sentence, she just mentioning some word meaning Sober is there, then later on she mentioned Sophranas, so she was not wrong there. Again it reveals a false accusation by you.
I have notice so many false accusations are made in the absence of the very person.

I listened to it twice (I said the first few minutes, not the first sentence), and it is there for anyone else who wants to listen. A transcript would be helpful but I stand by what I said. The word she used was not sophronas but "sobron" and she did indeed say it was completely ommitted, specifically she said it was not just translated as something else but completely omitted. That is an error.

D.

 

[Disgruntled UK Baptist]

She was talking about 1 Tim 2:9

Well I didn't hear Timothy mentioned but in any case it's the same word. I'll give her this, she is American and presumably from the south and I am English, I thought she said "sobron" but perhaps it could have been "sophron" - if I stick my head under several feet of water. The second time she said "sopron" and the third time it was "sobron" again, at least to my English ears. The rest of the issue still stands though. I hadn't picked up that bit about it (the greek) being a perfect translation of the Latin until this time through, that was funny - doesn't she know the Greek came first??

What is so very tragic is that there are good well meaning people out there lapping all this up. If this lady presented this stuff for a dissertation for a degree, even a modest Bachelor's degree, she would fail outright. At best she is wasting everyone's time. AT worst, well, I would probably get booted from the board if I went any further.

D.

 

[Eliyahu]

Well I didn't hear Timothy mentioned but in any case it's the same word. I'll give her this, she is American and presumably from the south and I am English, I thought she said "sobron" but perhaps it could have been "sophron" - if I stick my head under several feet of water. The second time she said "sopron" and the third time it was "sobron" again, at least to my English ears. The rest of the issue still stands though. I hadn't picked up that bit about it (the greek) being a perfect translation of the Latin until this time through, that was funny - doesn't she know the Greek came first??

What is so very tragic is that there are good well meaning people out there lapping all this up. If this lady presented this stuff for a dissertation for a degree, even a modest Bachelor's degree, she would fail outright. At best she is wasting everyone's time. AT worst, well, I would probably get booted from the board if I went any further.

D.

Actually I think she was speaking Sober in English, not any Greek word. What she intends there is some word having the meaning of Sober. she didn't intend to expound academically very much there. I wonder how and for what such video was prepared.
I can give a lecture at a nursing homs for the elderly people, without need of preparing it with precise word study, because I can deliver the important message about the Words of God, without bothering the audience with complicated Greek grammar, then the audience will be happy and be directed to think about the Sober life once more ( without drinking too much!)

 

[franklinmonroe]

Again I listened to her, and noticed she was not mentioning exact wordings there. She just mentioned " there is a word for Sober there in Titus 2:5" which is quite correct...

What video are you listening to? She does not say Titus 2:5 (that you show within quotes) at any time. You're wrong. In the course of speaking about the word "sober" she never once mentions any book, chapter, or verse reference at all.

And what King James Version do you people have? She is talking about the word "sober" and you say she is correct that it is in verse 5? No, its not correct. Its wrong. The word "sober" in my KJV is in verse 4.

You need to get these basic facts right. If you cannot hear properly or comprehend what she is saying after listening several times, all your commentary is of no value.

 

[franklinmonroe]

Well I didn't hear Timothy mentioned but in any case it's the same word. I'll give her this, she is American and presumably from the south and I am English, I thought she said "sobron" but perhaps it could have been "sophron" - if I stick my head under several feet of water. The second time she said "sopron" and the third time it was "sobron" again, at least to my English ears. The rest of the issue still stands though. I hadn't picked up that bit about it (the greek) being a perfect translation of the Latin until this time through, that was funny - doesn't she know the Greek came first?...

No, you didn't hear anything about Timothy, because she didn't say anything about Timothy during this discourse on "sober". The first time she says something about "the root word, sobron" (or it could be "sophron"), about a minute later she says it the second time and it does sound different, more clearly like "sophron". She says that "the Greek word is right there" and the follows with "the word is a pefect translation of the Latin...".

Its just ridiculous: she's complaining about the NKJV not having a word that she herself cannot even locate properly in her own Bible. She very coy about giving references or complete verses in context (me thinks because she doesn't want to be challenged, and have some wiggle room to escape if she is confronted).

 

[Eliyahu]

Fair enough. That does rather make me wonder why the NKJV is not more popular in PB circles.

William McDonald is a good commander of Greek.
You would know Darby translated NT from Greek and OT from Hebrew. ************************

Yes, Darby of course. He started as an Anglican, didn't he? I was thinking of modern day PBs.
D.

Darby translated from Greek NT and Hebrew OT into English, French, German, then translated only NT into Italian. He was in Anglican in the young age, and a brilliant and young Judge at the court, He was promising in his career but gave up and decided at the young age, to devote his full time for his Lord. He found a faithful and intelligent sister in the Lord to marry, but at the end, he gave up the marriage and devoted fully onto the Lord until he die at the age of 82. He was the one who started the PB movement around 1825-27. He preached the Gospel throughout Europe, riding on a horse to France, Germany, Netherland, Italy, Swiss, and so on, then he went to USA and New Zealand. He wrote many books other than the Bible. He could live rich but lived poor with some bread and Bible books on the horse, then preached wherever it is possible.
http://www.plymouthbrethren.org/author_bio.php?author_id=7

His books influenced greatly onto Watchman Nee( China in 20 c) and Hudson Taylor ( China Inland Mission).
George Muller( Father of Orphans), CH McIntosh ( famous for Pentateuch commentary), David Livingstone(Africa), Eric Sauer ( Germany), Groves( Doctor in Iraq, in 19c), Robert Chapman (UK 19c), Joseph Scrivener( famous for his song, what a friend we have in Jesus) are the famous PB's. Also, Harry Ironside is included among them though he spent last 25 years at Moody's memorial church.

Eric Sauer and Harry Ironside were 2 of three who memorized the NT in Greek, as far as I know. Khursechev the president of Russia memorized only 4 Gospel in Russian.

So, the education in the college of theology is not pre-requisite for the expertise in the study of Bible in the original( or ancient) language. God provides His people with all the blessings necessary for His work,and the church is the best organization for nurturing the believers.

 

[franklinmonroe]

...She didn't pronounce any Greek word in that sentence. She was talking about 1 Tim 2:9, and said "politeness" instead of moderation, because the addess was like a free talking, without the precise quote... The style of the address is like a free talking without reading any preparation... The contents is just like a free presentation, and she is saying some word like... and so on, she didn't claim the accuracy of the Greek background words, but was focussing the English differences...

It may seem like free talking because of her unprofessional presentation, but this clearly a mini-conference where she is a featured speaker. If you listen carefully to the video she mentions that there were sessions the evening before this day's lecture. If you look closely at the video you will observe that she has her prepared notes in front of her along with her various props. It is not impromptu. It is rehearsed; I have seen another video of her speaking and she mentions several of the same topics.

 

[Eliyahu]

No, you didn't hear anything about Timothy, because she didn't say anything about Timothy just prior to this discourse on "sober". The first time she says something about "the root word, sobron" (or it could be "sophron"), about a minute later she says it the second time and it does sound different, more clearly like "sophron". She says that "the Greek word is right there" and the follows with "the word is a pefect translation of the Latin...".

Its just ridiculous: she's complaining about the NKJV not having a word that she herself cannot even locate properly in her own Bible. She very coy about giving references or complete verses in context (me thinks because she doesn't want to be challenged, and have some wiggle room to escape if she is confronted).

The sentence which she was talking about was 1 Timothy 2 :9 even though she didn't utter Timothy. Again, the more I hear it, the more I feel the video was not prepared for official debate, it was a kind of free or casual talking to a certain group of audience. I think the OP poster( or the site) should open how he obtained the video and where it was taken etc. Then a group of people are shooting her behind! If anyone hre make some casual presentation to the audience, then can he or she deliver the address inerrantly?

 

[franklinmonroe]

The sentence which she was talking about was 1 Timothy 2 :9 even though she didn't utter Timothy.

Yes, I get that you think she was referring to this verse in Timothy. You have determined that from one isolated word she spoke as an example, "polite" (which isn't even in 1 Timothy 2:9).

 

[franklinmonroe]

Again, the more I hear it, the more I feel the video was not prepared for official debate, it was a kind of free or casual talking to a certain group of audience.

There is no debate. She gave a lecture. She is a professional author. It is not a secret video; this is evident if you watch the entire video.

I think the OP poster( or the site) should open how he obtained the video and where it was taken etc.

The OP poster didn't obtain the video, its just out on the Internet at a pro-KJV website. Watch the video and you will see at the end the pastor of the church speaks for a few minutes. I'm sure some one could identify the church and the date.

Then a group of people are shooting her behind! If anyone hre make some casual presentation to the audience, then can he or she deliver the address inerrantly?

No human can be expected to do anything inerrantly. I have chosen to discuss the major points given in the lecture, and I have written very little commentary on the opportunities to pick at smaller issues.

 

[Keith M]

The sentence which she was talking about was 1 Timothy 2 :9 even though she didn't utter Timothy. Again, the more I hear it, the more I feel the video was not prepared for official debate, it was a kind of free or casual talking to a certain group of audience.

Then if Ms. Riplinger did not want her unfounded claims open to public scrutiny and/or debate, she should never have made these claims in any of the media - print, video, etc. By making these claims publicly she opens herself up for public refutation of these false claims, whether she is "present" or not.

I think the OP poster( or the site) should open how he obtained the video and where it was taken etc. Then a group of people are shooting her behind! If anyone hre make some casual presentation to the audience, then can he or she deliver the address inerrantly?

No one is "shooting her behind," Eliyahu. She has made errant claims in deriding the word of God in various forms beside the KJV. In this case she attacks the NKJV, but she equally attacks God's word in other English translations. What is being done here is that her false claims are being dissected and shown for the error they really are. If Ms. Riplinger's "facts" are not to be refuted by the truth, then she should stop making these false claims. It's really quite simple - if she had not made these fantastic and probably intentionally false claims, her ideas would not be dissected and refuted in a public forum. If Ms. Riplinger wants to come here to BB (wonder if she's Baptist?) and defend her false claims then let her come. Of course her errors will be disproven just as ably with her here or without her here. It makes no difference - truth is truth and it will be shown as truth no matter what Ms. Riplinger may claim. Ms. Riplinger and everyone else who accepts the KJVO myth are terribly confused. This confusion, of course, cannot possibly come from God, because God is not the author of confusion. Her myths certainly have nothing to do with peace. Rather, her false claims are divisive simply because they are based entirely on falsehood and errant opinion.

For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 1 Corinhians 14:33 NKJV

 

[franklinmonroe]

No, Luke 13:8 should be translated as Lord. We should treat both Lord and lord in the same category. I cannot recall the cases of master, sir, etc.
But I am sure no other word can be better than Lord in Luke 13:8

Why? Are you saying that the "certain man" in the parable is actually God our Lord?

 

[tinytim]

No, Luke 13:8 should be translated as Lord. We should treat both Lord and lord in the same category. I cannot recall the cases of master, sir, etc.
But I am sure no other word can be better than Lord in Luke 13:8

What about the word Luke actually used....

κύριος
kurios

Which can also mean master.

 

[Disgruntled UK Baptist]

And what King James Version do you people have? She is talking about the word "sober" and you say she is correct that it is in verse 5? No, its not correct. Its wrong. The word "sober" in my KJV is in verse 4.

Well, you are quite right, I was looking at verse 5 which has the same Greek word. So why doesn't the KJV have "sober" in verse 5 then, if this is an issue? As for verse 4, I'm suffering from inadequate Greek here, but both the Greek texts are the same, most of the mvs omit any translation for σωφρονιζωσιν, and it seems that σωφρονιζωσιν (strongs 4994) has the sense of "to make of sound mind" and can therefore equally mean to teach or discipline someone. The mvs have apparently taken it to mean this and so have not duplicated the reference to teaching them.

And that. I'm afraid, is as far as I can go. Clearly I made a factual error and I apologise.

memo to self, must get on with the Greek - again. Sigh.

D.

 

[Disgruntled UK Baptist]

So, the education in the college of theology is not pre-requisite for the expertise in the study of Bible in the original( or ancient) language. God provides His people with all the blessings necessary for His work,and the church is the best organization for nurturing the believers.

I suspect you are forgetting that any good education in those days would have included classical Greek. Classical Greek is much more difficult than Koine Greek. if you have learned classical Greek thoroughly, koine Greek is not a problem. These days hardly any schools teach Latin, let alone Greek.

D.

 

[HankD]

I only watched the first minute or so of the video and was surprised at the many misconceptions at the very opening of the presentation.

Here is a worthy observation (IMO) that someone made:

Riplinger seemed to tone down her claim to "how the NKJV matches Jehovah Witness Version" (Language of the KJB, p. 148). Has the false claim actually been corrected or has a synonym been substituted for "copy?" Is her new claim still misleading? By using her faulty reasoning, a comparison could be made entitled "how the KJV matches the Jehovah Witness Version" or "how the KJV matches the Latin Vulgate."

Better yet "Why does the KJV match the RCC Douai-Rheims (particularly the Rheims NT) in an abundance of places, often word-for-word?

The Rheims NT was published in 1582.

HankD

 

[Eliyahu]

By this time, I think the site or the OP poster should find how and for what the video was prepared. If the video was not prepared for academic debate, it is not worthwhile to argue about it.
I have read NT in Greek many times, but if I am invited for some casual discussion to a place like a nursing home, I would rather focus on the English meanings and their differences as the audience don't understand about the Greek words.
Unless someone can command or memorize Greek NT as much as Eric Sauer or Harry Ironside, one need to be prepared for the academic debate. She was not mentioning any precise Greek words there, and was not mentioning verse by verse, and word by word for the audience, but focussing on the English difference.
She was very right to point out the difference between KJV and NKJV in Luke 13:8. Kurios can be interpretted as othe words, but not in that case if we read the context, and we know that Kurios's main meaning is lord or Lord. Also she was correct with Mt 18:26.

Again, I have just confirmed all the accusations are groundless and coward as shooting a person from behind and condemning a person in the absence following the multitude ( Ex 23:2). I wonder if the video was obtained publicly or secretly without permission.