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Featured Another Statement from the Calvinism Advisory Committee

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Van, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    I guess I've been outed... :tongue3:
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Rather than an unhealthy craving for controversy, efforts for forge commonality of doctrine is met with shuck and jive. In the linked article above (post #22) several past controversies are highlighted but no common ground is offered, hence a false dichotomy.

    The first one, the effect of the fall, had in common, all men were made sinners, conceived in iniquity, corrupted and predisposed to sin. What was in dispute was whether being spiritually "dead" in sin as conceived, resulted in Total Spiritual Inability. Here we must view the three lines of evidence in scripture that declare fallen men are able to seek God, receive the gospel, and trust in Christ.

    In Matthew 13:1-23 we have four differing conditions of men. Some by the practice of sin have so hardened themselves they are unable to receive the gospel, thus now are in the condition of total spiritual inability. However, they were not conceived that way, they lost what limited spiritual ability they had. Next, we several passages that say men were "hardened" such that they could no longer receive the gospel, i.e. Romans 11. Thus again, the men lost the limited spiritual ability they had. And finally we have Matthew 23:13 where fallen men are "entering heaven" thus had sufficient spiritual ability to seek God and understand His revelation. But then they are blocked by false teachers teaching false doctrine. Taken together, these three lines of evidence teach fallen men have limited spiritual ability, able to understand the milk of the gospel, but because they are not born again and indwelt, have no ability to understand spiritual meat.

    Thus being "dead" means being unable to bridge the gap between their unholy sinful separated from God state, and God's holy kingdom of righteousness. But being "dead" does not mean being unable to understand the milk of the gospel and respond in love and faith in Christ.

    On the subject of Ephesians 1:4, some thought God chose individuals before creation for salvation, and others thought God chose classes of people, i.e. a corporate election of believers in Christ, those who would be redeemed by Christ during their lifetime. Again, there should not be controversy, there are again three lines of evidence indicating the election of Ephesians 1:4 is corporate rather than individual.

    First 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says individuals are chosen through faith in the truth. Thus our individual election is conditional, based on God accepting our faith in Christ, as flawed as it may be, and crediting it as righteousness. Second, James 2:5 say (when translated grammatically) God chooses those rich in faith, those who love God. Again this puts our individual election for salvation as occurring during our lifetime, not before creation. And third, 1 Peter 2:9-10 teaches we lived without mercy, i.e. not yet chosen, before we received mercy, i.e. were chosen.

    The next controversy deals with limited atonement as defined by Calvinism, i.e. Christ died for the individuals elected before creation, rather than Christ died for all men, including whoever God chooses based on faith, during their lifetime. And again we have several lines of evidence so there should be no controversy. 1 John 2:2 teaches Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world. And John uses the word translated "world" to refer to fallen mankind or the corrupt system of fallen mankind. Then we have the verse that says God desires all men to be saved. If only some individuals had already been chosen, and the unchosen suffered from total spiritual inability, then God would have desired some men rather than all men be saved. And thirdly, we have Christ dying as a ransom for all, including a false teacher who had been bought by the Master. Taken together, the evidence resolves the issue, Christ died for all men, but only some men receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

    Finally we have some saying those saved by God alone are able to escape by their own volition the grasp of God and Jesus. Again, this should not be controversial because we have several lines of evidence that teach once we are actually saved, we are saved forever. First we are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit forever. If we are indwelt, we will be resurrected at Christ second coming. Thus only those whose "faith" God did not credit as righteousness, "lose" the salvation they never really had. They depart from us because they were not of us. Christ says, "I never knew you" not I knew you but you escaped."

    But at the end of the day, each and every Calvinist will look at the 400 years of great men of God adhering to these mistaken beliefs, and chose to trust in men rather than what the Bible actually says.
     
    #23 Van, Jun 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2013
  3. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Good Job Van!!!!
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    What? No :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: ?
     
  5. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Trying not to show up as blip on your radar screen. :)
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Van

    No...scripture says they cannot...


    Wrong...a denial of romans 5...
    Wrong again..you are inventing novelties which oppose clear verses.

    .

    Wrong again....once you get the fall wrong ..this kind of error must happen.
    Wrong...because of this glaring error;

    .

    Completely unbiblical as it seeks to denigrate God.

    Wrong view of God,wrong view of election...

    That is wrong again as it is everytime you post it.
     
  7. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    The Bible disagrees. Hebrews 6:4-6
     
  8. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Thank you for taking the time to respond to that, I read it yesterday but too much on my plate, so I just prayed.
     
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