Anti- drum beat/syncopation

TinyTim, how is the song you posted in any way considered a worship song? Not one mention of trusting in God at all! I have heard it played on the alternative rock station here, and worship was the last thing I thought of when I heard it first. Actually, I thought of a Van Halen song that said pretty much the exact thing in their lyrics twenty years ago, or maybe The Who back in the sixties. Worshipful, no way. Sign of the times, definitely.

love,

Sopranette

 

It is not a worship song... that is why I said I thought it would not be appropriate for a worship service, but I would like it as entertainment...

P.O.D. has another song that I was looking for but couldn't find an example online, called "alive" That is MORE of a worship song...

Everyday is a new day
I’m thankful for every breath I take
I won’t take it for granted (I won't take it for granted)
So I learn from my mistakes
It’s beyond my control, sometimes it’s best to let go
Whatever happens in this lifetime
So I trust in love (So I trust in love)
You have given me peace of mind

Chorus:
I, I feel so alive for the very first time
I can’t deny you
I feel so alive
I, I feel so alive for the very first time
And I think I can fly

Sunshine upon my face (Sunshine upon my face)
A new song for me to sing
Tell the world how I feel inside (tell the world how I feel inside)
Even though it might cost me everything
And now that I know that it's beyond my control
It's like I can never turn my back away
And now that I’ve seen you (and now that I see you)
I can never look away

Chorus:
I, I feel so alive for the very first time
I can’t deny you
I feel so alive
I, I feel so alive for the very first time
And I think I can fly

Bridge:
Now that I know you (I could never turn my back away)
Now that I see you (I could never look away)
Now that I know you (I could never turn my back away)
Now that I see you (I believe no matter what they say)

I-I feel so alive (feel so alive)
for the very first time (for the very first time)
for the very first time, and I think I can fly.
I-I feel so alive (feel so alive)
for the very first time and I think I can fly,
and I think I can fly, and I think I can fly.
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Alive-lyrics-P-O-D/2A0C9E00FEA90DD948256ABC0027DFE6

The reason I am choosing P.O.D. songs is because I consider P.O.D. (which according to Wiki, means "The initials stand for Payable On Death, referring to the death of Jesus Christ and a testament to their Christian faith." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.O.D.) Is because I would consider them on the extreme side of the Christian music spectrum.

As opposed to Michael W. Smith... and his song, "above all" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7Sn5rV6oM0
Which I do consider a true worship song. And used it Sunday morning as the congregational song. I even expect it to be showing up in our hymnals pretty soon...

The reason I am throwing out these songs is because there is such a huge gap in "Christian" music... That it is hard to debate if we don't know what others might consider extreme.

 

And when it comes down too it, there are a lot of hymns that are not "worship" songs...

A song that does not praise God, is not a worship song...
A song that is all about Me is not a worship song
I'll fly away, is all about "I"
When the roll is called up younder "I'll" be there

HOly, HOly, Holy, is a worship song... see the difference

 

Again, how is this in any way, shape or, form a worship song? Who do they love? Who do they not deny? If they had even mentioned Jesus one time, I would have MAYBE put it in some kind of CCM catagory. As such, it doesn't even qualify for that. Just because they are Christians , doesn't make their songs automatically worship songs.

In contrast, "I'll Fly Away" IS a worship song. I can tell that without even mentioning the author.

I'll fly away, Lord Glory
I'll fly away
When I die
Halleluja by and by
I'll fly away
To a home on God's celestial shore

love,

Sopranette

 

Tiny tim, would you consider Kanye West's "Jesus Walks" song a worship song, or one man's struggle in trying to find God? I can't post the lyrics because of the foul language (that alone would tell me it isn't suitable for a worship song, not for church, anyway).

love,

Sopranette

 

Thread has moved away from what it originally intended to discuss. Once again we have "the drums discussion" morphed into the "that's not worship" discussion. Are we really thinking and praying about these things? Or just copying and pasting posts from previous threads?

 

No, it is not a worship song... And neither is "alive" I said it is "more' of a worship song, but it still wouldn't cut it... it is not praising God for who he is... althought it starts out... Everyday is a new day
I’m thankful for every breath I take

It is not praising God for who he is.
That is what a worship song is.
I love the songs, but it is all about what we get to do...

Strict worship is praising God. I'll fly away is praising an event in the future. compare it to "Holy, Holy, Holy" Which is all about God's holiness... it praises God for who He is.
Or "Above All".. again, it is praising God...

Now do I require all songs to be "worship" songs to have them in a church service... no... I'll fly away is our church's favorite song, and we sing it at least once a month... it is giving praise to God for something that we know will happen...
But that does not mean it is a worship song.

I know I may be splitting hairs here, but when I plan a strict worship service... everything points to God....
Another song by Chris Tomlin,,, "HOw Great is our God"... Or "How Great thou Art" will work. Both songs point ONLY to God.. not to ourselves.


As for the other song you asked about, I have never heard it. But I doubt I would like it.. as I don't like Kanye West.

 

Sorry, you are right...

 

I'm not jumping on you Tim. I just think it may be time for me to bow out of these discussions... as they never change. This is the same argument we were having 5 years ago when I joined the BB... with a few different players.

 

Yeah, but it is so fun... NOT!

I think Soprannette is actually seeking the truth.. as others may be.
And that is worth the fight.

 

Excess and riot are clearly off limits in the life of a Christian: 1 Pet. 4:4, Eph. 5:18. So God has a line somewhere. My question was in response to one wanting Scriptural grounds about forms of music, much of which even by modern standards are clearly excessive and riotous, and folks know that, but it would shatter their fallacious premises concerning the silence of the Scriptures concerning musical styles, so they continue to dart here and there behind the subterfuge of personal preferences.

Now concerning your OT references. If you want a green light to employ the peurile methods under the law, then you must understand, they were still not allowed to import pagan methods in their worship of Jehovah. Your reference is an example in which a pagan method of moving the ark was employed, and it resulted in the death of a man.

 

I find it an indictment that the movement that forced its way into the church at the cost of unity and the casualties those of tender conscience is now saying that the "I" songs are "inappropriate."

 

Since you put the word "inappropriate" in quotation marks, please show me where Annsni used that word.

No one said they were "inappropriate." We are saying that story songs, along with songs that praise what we do, or what we get to do, are not worship songs toward God...

I am glad Annsni understands what worship truly means...

Songs like "I want to stroll over Heaven with you" and other such "camp meeting" songs are not worship songs, unless they they are worshipping man...

Another one.. ."Just build me a cabin in the corner of glory land"... OH, i feel the love toward God in that one... It is all about what we are going to get. Nothing worshipful about it....

Or what about "Just a little talk with Jesus makes me fine" Yep... again, it is about what we can do.. not about who HE is... besides, that song has a buddhist slant with the reference to the Prayer wheel turning... that should not even be allowed in our churches...

But try to take that away from the ones that hate modern worship songs, and they will cry "foul"...

I thought you Aaron, of all people, would appreciate the higher standards Annsni and I are proposing. If we are going to call something "worship" it should worship God... not man, or what man is going to get.

Now how do drums affect any of this.. I don't know... accept I can worship with drums playing the same as I can without... It makes no difference to me.... my focus is on God when I am worshipping

But drums seem to upset people who focus on them instead of God.
If drums upset you, you should point your focus on God.. and truly learn to worship.

 

Actually, I'm kind of with briother Rhodes here. Pretty much tired of the subject, as they seem to go nowhere. But you posting these lyrics as possible worship songs, then saying story or "I" hymns are not worship songs, just didn't click for me. Still has me totally at a loss, really.

love,

Sopranette

 

Soprannete, I think you have misunderstood me.. I am not, nor have i said, Youth of a Nation or Alive is a worship song.... They are not... although I do think they are Christian songs... But not worshipful.. .I agree with you on that.

My sole purpose was to give this thread an example of a CCM song that we can use to discuss why the music is good or bad morally...
I see now, that it was useless trying to inject a objective standard into a subjective thread. I should have known better...

To help you understand this.. take a hymnal.
Turn to the back, and in most hymnals right in front of the index of songs, there is a list of the songs, but they are broken up into categories...

For instance, Just as I am is an invitational song...
There are other categories, like Praise, warfare-Christian, submission, etc...

There is also a category called worship... look at the songs in this category... they all have one thing in common... they are all sung to God and they are all about God...
Here are some in my hymnal that are listed as worship songs:
All Hail the Power
Be still my soul
Bless His holy name
Come thou almighty
Heavenly Father we adore you

Now getting back to the OP, let's try this again... listening to JUST THE MUSIC (NOT THE LYRICS)of Youth of the nation what is wrong morally with the music? and back it up scripturally.

 

"I will praise Him
I will praise Him
Praise the Lamb for sinners slain."

That is a hymn, and a very worshipful one. It is God that demands worship. Worship is for our good not God's. He desires us to worship Him. In many cases that necessitates the first person singular.

I have a problem with the name "worship service." We don't call it that. It is not a worship service, for it is not primarily singing and praying, which worship is. But our service is centered around the preaching and teaching of the Word of God. That, strictly speaking is not worship. It is feeding on the Word of God. It is being instructed in the things of God. That is the focus of our service. There is some worship at the beginning of the service, but that is not the primary focus. The focus is on the Word of God, not on worship. Most worship ought to be done in the privacy of one's own home, alone with God, as Jesus taught in Mat.6:6,7.

 

hmmm....


..."Belly up to the trough hour?"
..."Buffet hour?"
..."Christian Casserole time?"
..."Scripture souffle'?"


I dunno...just trying to help a brother out. :laugh:

 

See, I have a fundamental difference here with what you said...
We don't go to church to get something out of it.. we go to Worship.
So the preacher is using his gifts and calling to worship God while he is preaching... we worship God by joining into the service... by using whatever gifts the Holy spirit gives us to use to glorify God.


I am just the opposite, I feel that the feeding of the word should not only be done at church, but also it should be done on a one to one basis with the Holy Spirit. We should be fed at home by reading, and quiet time...

We should come to church worshipping together as a corporate body not worshipping, focusing on, the word of God.. .(Bible) but the one that wrote it, God...

Anything but focus on God in church is wrong.

All things done should point to God.

Where I am questioning right now, is it God the Father, or God the Son we should focus on? The Holy Spirit doesn't desire to be focused on, but points to Christ.