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Featured Any Bible translation to actually say . . . ?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by 37818, Jun 7, 2024.

  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree with those verses...thanks...they support my position :Tongue

    It's a well worn debate.....ever since those pesky Reformers came up with your view :D

    Seriously, though, I do realize Scripture can be used to support either of our positions, and that we can't both be right...but we could both be wrong.

    In my view, Christ bore our sins and suffered the wages of sin (but not instead of us), and in Him we die to sin and are made alive.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The use of words or phrases with vague, ambiguous or multiple meanings is counter to the command of Christ to speak plainly, clearly and boldly.

    Eternal Generation is held by some to be God the Son became the Son, and was not always existing as the Son. To generate something is to originate or produce something.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    If God the Son was always, eternally, existing as God the Son, then God the Son was never "generated." Thus the phrase, actually means, eternal non-generation. But the advocates for this ambiguous phrase will not agree with that!!!
     
  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    If you want to use the term "eternal non-generation" then go ahead. The fact you can not understand the concept of "Eternal Generation" in regard to the Trinity of God is something that you will have to deal with.

    What you have to realize is that not everyone struggles with that concept as you and few others on this board do.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    "Generated" is not the word used. The phrase is "Eternal Generation" which is the opposite of "generated". (NOT "eternally generated" but "eternal generation").

    The title, whether you agree with it or not, mean that Jesus is eternally God, co-equal with the Father, NEVER having a beginning.

    "Generated" was chosen as a more generic word for "behotten". In the Doctrine of the Trinity they carry the same meaning - "equal to in kind", "of the same essence".

    "Eternal non-generation" would mean "eternally of a different essence than the Father, greater or less than God".


    Anyway, I agree - as evidenced by this thread - that some (a minority of Christians....again, as evidenced by this thread) will be confused by the term and theological concept.

    And to be fair too many churches have pushed seriously learning theogy to the seminary or choosing indoctrination into a sect over Biblical education.

    It is not right to hang onto antiquated language simply for traditions sake, or the appearance of elevated ideas when doing so fosters ignorance about the doctrines intended to be communicated.

    So I'm all for updating the words if doing so better communicates the doctrine being taught. But don't do away with the older forms. Have a "Theology for Dummies" alongside the Doctrine of the Trinity and include all the debates over how these terms were worked out and developed.


    Another issue is "natures". We think of "nature" as attributes or qualities, but in the Doctrine of the Trinity "nature" is closer to "essence".
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, indeed, "generation" has more than one meaning, but one of its meanings is:

    2
    a : the action or process of producing offspring : procreation
    b: the process of coming or bringing into being generation of income
    c: origination by a generating process : production especially : formation of a geometric figure by motion of another

    Eternal non=generation (using definition #2 above) means eternally never generated, always existing as God the Son.

    It is not right to hang onto antiquated language simply for traditions sake, or the appearance of elevated ideas when doing so fosters ignorance about the doctrines intended to be communicated.

    So I'm all for updating the words if doing so better communicates the doctrine being taught. But don't do away with the older forms. Have a "Theology for Dummies" alongside the Doctrine of the Trinity and include all the debates over how these terms were worked out and developed.​

    I agree "Eternal Generation" because it confuses some and has spawned false and unbiblical doctrine inconsistent with John 1:1, is antiquated and should be replaced so no one says God the Father "brought forth" God the Son, and every says God the Father "sent forth" God the Son to be God incarnate.
     
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    the teaching of "eternal generation" of the Son from the essence of the Father is what Paul calls, "doctrine of demons", and is the work mainly of the arch early Church heretic, Origen, who taught that both Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are CREATED beings and not Almighty God, which is against what the Bible very clearly teaches!

    Much of Origens heresies on the Trinity were adopted by Arius!
     
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