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Featured Any know about the 1873 Cambridge Kjv Bible?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Yeshua1, Jun 23, 2020.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    was it supposed to be the final and best corrected edition of the kjv then?
     
  2. Conan

    Conan Active Member

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    New Cambridge Paragraph Bible - Wikipedia

    Considerable honour is due to Scrivener for his work on the 1873 Cambridge Paragraph Bible. Nevertheless, there are some instances of misrepresentation of the original KJV text in Scrivener's work, since, as Norton suggests, he felt himself entitled to "correct" what the translators wrote. For example,

    • in Matthew 23:24, Scrivener changes KJV's "strain at a gnat" to "strain out a gnat" (emphasis added) on the basis of the belief that it was a printer's error or a mistranslation, as it is commonly known that hulizō means "to filter".[3]
    • he changes Hebrews 10:23's "Let us hold fast the profession of our faith" to "Let us hold fast the profession of our hope" (emphasis added); this change was allegedly to fix a translator error;
    • there are instances of spelling that are intentionally left unmodernized, such as "ebeny" for "ebony" and "mo" for "more";
    • Additionally, the passage in 1 John 5:7–8 often referred to as the Johannine Comma is thrown into italics by Scrivener because of its disputed authenticity, although the original translators left no indication that they doubted its genuineness. (This italicization has been removed from Zondervan's reprints of the Cambridge Paragraph Bible text but can be seen in the New Testament Octapla's reprinting.)
    Although Scrivener's text has been highly regarded since its appearance, it has not had a major influence on current editions of the KJV, which are essentially reprints of the 1769 Oxford edition by Benjamin Blayney. Therefore, current KJV printings feature certain post-1611-edition editorial changes, 18th century spelling, an enhanced system of "supplied words" (the words printed in italics as having no equivalent in the original Biblical texts but added for clarity), and emended punctuation
     
  3. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Most post-1900 KJV editions have at least 400 differences when compared to the 1769 Oxford edition by Blayney.

    Most post-1900 or present Cambridge KJV editions follow the 1873 Cambridge correction at 1 Samuel 2:13 [“priests’ custom”] since the Hebrew noun translated priests here was plural in number, and they may also be following the 1873 edition in departing from around twenty spellings of proper names in the 1769 Oxford to return to 1611 spellings reintroduced in the 1873. Those spellings of proper names likely include the following: “Sabtecha” (Gen. 10:7), “Abida” (Gen. 25:4), “Zerah” (Gen. 46:12), “Jahazah” (Josh. 13:18), “Hapharaim” (Josh. 19:19), “Malchi-shua” (1 Sam. 31:2), “Shammua” (2 Sam. 5:14), “Shimea” (2 Sam. 21:21), “Naharai” (2 Sam. 23:37), “Ezer” (1 Chron. 1:38), “Geshan” (1 Chron. 2:47), “Achsah” (1 Chron. 2:49), “Shimron” (1 Chron. 7:2), “Jehoshua” (1 Chron. 7:27), “Michah” (1 Chron. 23:20), “Jeshua” (1 Chron. 24:11), “Ephraim” (2 Chron. 13:19), “Ezion-geber” (2 Chron. 20:36), “Carchemish” (2 Chron. 35:20), “Mispar” (Ezra 2:2), “Asnappar” (Ezra 4:10), and “Nicolaitans” (Rev. 2:6, 15). It is likely from the 1873 Cambridge or from Scrivener’s book with information from a collation of several KJV editions that post-1900 Cambridge editions adopted most the following renderings: “all his sin” (2 Chronicles 33:19), “whom ye” (Jeremiah 34:16), “flieth away” (Nahum 3:16), “Beer-sheba, or Sheba” (Joshua 19:2), “vapour” (Psalm 148:8), “wits’ end” (Psalm 107:27), “travail” (Numbers 20:14), “travail” (Lamentations 3:5), “Spirit” (Matthew 4:1), “Spirit” (Mark 1:12), “further” (Matthew 26:39), “further” (Mark 1:19), “further” (Ecclesiastes 8:17), “wondrously” (Jud. 13:19), “floats” (2 Chron. 2:16), “clifts” (Job 30:6), and “chrysolite” (Rev. 21:20).
     
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  4. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    This 1873 and present KJV edition has "strain out" at Matthew 23:24 instead of "strain at."
    It has "profession of our hope" at Hebrews 10:23 instead of "profession of our faith."
    At John 10:25, this 1873 edition has "ye believe not" in agreement with several of the earlier English Bibles while most present KJV's have "ye believed not."
    At Acts 25:23, it has "were entered" in agreement with several earlier English Bibles while most KJV's have "was entered" following the Bishops' Bible.

    This 1873 edition has "thy mercy's sake" (Psalm 6:4, 31:16, 44:26) for the Oxford edition's "thy mercies' sake," “fathers‘ house“ for “father‘s house“ (1 Chron. 7:2, Ezra 2:59, Neh. 7:61), “heart’s lust” for “hearts’ lust” (Ps. 81:12), “Adder‘s poison“ for “adders‘ poison“ (Ps. 140:3), “fools‘ back” for “fool‘s back“ (Prov. 26:3), “merchant’s ships” for “merchants’ ships” (Prov. 31:14), “priests‘” for “priest’s” (Ezek. 44:30), “potter’s clay” for “potters’ clay” (Dan. 2:41), and “oaths’ sake” for “oath’s sake” (Matt. 14:9, Mark 6:26).

    From the second 1611 “She” edition, it has “possession“ for “possessions“ (Gen. 47:27), “ye shall“ for “shall ye“ (Lev. 18:30), “thou shalt“ for “shalt thou“ (Num. 10:2), “the valleys“ for “valleys“ (Deut. 8:7), “it is true“ for “it be true“ (Deut. 17:4), “she rose“ for “she arose“ (1 Kings 3:20), “bondman“ for “bondmen“ (1 Kings 9:22), “maidens“ for “maids“ (Job 19:15), “thine hand“ for “thy hand“ (Isa. 64:8), “mine hands” for “my hands” (Isa. 65:2), “mine hand” for “my hand” (Jer. 25:15, Ezek. 6:14), “with the sword“ for “by the sword“ (Ezek. 31:18), “in pieces“ for “to pieces“ (Dan. 2:34), and “they be drunken“ for “they are drunken“ (Nahum 1:10)..
     
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  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Scrivener presented a list of the places in his 1873 edition that he restored 1611 readings (Authorized Edition, pp. 215-237).

    The Old Testament of this edition has “you“ for “ye“ (Gen. 9:4), “Girgashite“ for “Girgasite“ (Gen. 10:16), “towards“ for “toward“ (Gen. 15:5), “this thing“ for “this thing also“ (Gen. 19:21), “lift“ for “lifted“ (Gen. 22:4), “amongst“ for “among“ (Gen. 23:10), “to him“ for “unto him“ (Gen. 25:33), “Philistims“ for “Philistines“ (Gen. 26:1), "hand” for “hands” (Gen. 39:1), “spirit” for “Spirit” (Gen. 41:38), “drunk“ for “drank“ (Gen. 43:34), “Haste you“ for “Haste ye“ (Gen. 45:9), “And you“ for “And ye“ (Gen. 45:13), “any man” for “any men” (Gen. 47:6), “you did“ for “ye did“ (Exod. 10:11), “consecrations“ for “consecration“ (Exod. 29:26), “clothes“ for “cloths“ (Exod. 31:10), “stript“ for “stripped“ (Exod. 33:6), “manner fat“ for “manner of fat“ (Lev. 7:23), “nor scales“ for “and scales“ (Lev. 11:10), “were“ for “are“ (Lev. 25:23), “river side“ for “river‘s side“ (Num. 24:6), “begun“ for “began“ (Num. 25:1), “thy hand“ for “thine hand“ (Deut. 2:24), “thy heart“ for “thine heart“ (Deut. 15:7), “thy oil“ for “thine oil“ (Deut. 18:4), “all lost thing“ for “all lost things“ (Deut. 22:3), “noondays“ for “noonday“ (Deut. 28:29), “even the Lord” for “of the Lord” (Josh. 3:11), “or Sheba“ for “and Sheba“ (Josh. 19:2), “spirit” for “Spirit” (Jud. 3:10), “a hammer“ for “an hammer“ (Jud. 4:21), “he went” for “she went” (Ruth 3:15), “girt“ for “girded“ (1 Sam. 2:4), “my heart“ for “mine heart“ (1 Sam. 2:35), “in the fields” for “in the field” (1 Sam. 20:5), “wrapt“ for “wrapped“ (1 Sam. 21:9), “rose“ for “arose“ (1 Sam. 24:8), “a hill“ for “an hill“ (1 Sam. 26:13), “thy word“ for “thy words“ (1 Kings 3:12), “the LORD“ for “the Lord“ (1 Kings 8:56), “flotes“ for “floats“ (1 Kings 5:9), “son” for “sons” (1 Kings 13:11), “leese“ for “lose“ (1 Kings 18:5), “a horse “ for “an horse“ (1 Kings 20:20), “neesed“ for “sneezed“ (2 Kings 4:35), “kab“ for “cab“ (2 Kings 6:25), “to give to him“ for “to give him“ (2 Kings 8:19), “Geshan“ for “Gesham“ (1 Chron. 2:47), “Shimron“ for “Shimrom“ (1 Chron. 7:2), “men of might” for “valiant men of might” (1 Chron. 7:5), “son“ for “sons“ (1 Chron. 7:35), “Michah“ for “Micah“ (1 Chron. 23:20), “and laid” for “and they laid” (2 Chron. 29:23), “sin“ for “sins“ (2 Chron. 33:19), “and gold” for “and the gold” (Ezra 7:18), “built“ for “builded“ (Neh. 3:1), “cruddled“ for “curdled“ (Job 10:10), “sent“ for “scent“ (Job 14:9), “flying” for “fleeing” (Job 30:3), “the LORD“ for “the Lord“ (Ps. 2:4), “whiles” for “while” (Ps. 49:18), “holy Spirit“ for “holy spirit“ (Ps. 51:11), “Zion“ for “Sion“ (Ps. 65:1), “stablish“ for “establish“ (Ps. 89:4), “snare” for “snares” (Ps. 141:9), “vapour” for “vapors” (Ps. 148:8), “beareth“ for “bear“ (Song of Solomon 4:2), “mixt“ for “mixed“ (Isa. 1:22), “Get you” for “Get you” (Isa. 30:11), “burnt“ for “burned“ (Jer. 1:16), “nor daughters” for “or daughters” (Jer. 16:2), “sith“ for “since“ (Jer. 23:38), “afterwards” for “afterward” (Jer. 34:11), “word which“ for “word that“ (Jer. 40:1), “utter court” for “outer court” (Ezek. 10:5), “cropt“ for “cropped“ (Ezek. 17:4), “And the word” for “The word” (Ezek. 18:1), “ebeny“ for “ebony“ (Ezek. 27:15), “astrologians“ for “astrologers“ (Dan. 2:27), “a whirlwind” for “the whirlwind” (Hos. 13:3), “ript“ for “ripped“ (Hos. 13:16), “Kerioth“ for “Kirioth“ (Amos 2:2), “flieth” for “fleeth” (Nah. 3:16), and “Lord GOD“ for “LORD God“ (Hab. 3:19).

    In the New Testament, this 1873 KJV edition has “but will” for “but he will” (Matt. 3:12), “Spirit“ for “spirit“ (Matt. 4:1), “a hungred“ for “an hungred“ (Matt. 4:2), “out the devils“ for “out devils“ (Matt. 9:34), “Is this“ for “Is not this“ (Matt. 12:23), “had not root” for “had no root” (Matt. 13:6), “a hymn“ for “an hymn“ (Matt. 26:30), “ought“ for “owed“ (Luke 7:41), “he said“ for “he had said“ (Luke 8:8), “to my Lord“ for “unto my Lord“ (Luke 20:42), “They say” for “They said” (John 11:34), “Canaan“ for “Chanaan“ (Acts 7:11, 13:19), “house“ for “housetop“ (Acts 10:9), “law of the husband“ for “law of her husband“ (Rom. 7:2), “approved to death” for “appointed to death” (1 Cor. 4:9), “hand“ for “hands“ (2 Cor. 5:1), “think you“ for “think ye“ (2 Cor. 12:19), “passed“ for “past“ (Eph. 2:11), “shamefastness” for “shamefacedness” (1 Tim. 2:9), “or by our epistle“ for “or our epistle“ (1 Thess. 2:15), “which doeth“ for “that doeth“ (1 John 2:29), “precious stone” for “precious stones” (Rev. 17:4), “sailers“ for “sailors“ (Rev. 18:17), “dipt” for “dipped” (Rev. 19:13), and several others.
     
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is that edition considered to be the clearest and best Kjv version?
     
  7. Conan

    Conan Active Member

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    There is no one clearest and best. One will contain mistakes the others don't have. Then the rolls are reversed. The New Cambridge Paragraph Bible had the option to just use Scriveners edition but opted not to. Textual criticism is helpful here it seems. It would seem right to keep the 1611 in mind.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That TR text is the one considered by many KJVO to be the "real" Greek text!
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    ASV has "out a gnat" not any AV that I know.
     
  10. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    It’s the official KJV version recommended by FaithLife/Logos...although they have others.

    Matthew 23:24 (Geneva)
    Ye blinde guides, which straine out a gnatte, and swallow a camel.

    Matthew 23:24 (AV1769)
    Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

    Matthew 23:24 (AV 1873)
    Ye blind guides, which strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel.

    Matthew 23:24 (KJV 1900)
    Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

    Here's an interesting blog post about it posted on the site from 2006 >> IN SEARCH OF THE KING JAMES VERSION [link]

    We went on a hunt for a definitive King James Version in print that we could reproduce completely, with all the bibliographic and supplementary material. We wanted a text with a clear pedigree and the smallest chance of errors introduced in multiple settings and printings.

    After talking with publishers, Bible societies, and scholars, we concluded that the 1873 Cambridge Paragraph Bible, edited by F. H. A. Scrivener, was the best edition to use. More than a century after the Blayney Edition, Scrivener had done an incredibly comprehensive and careful revision of the KJV text. The text was paragraphed. Poetry was formatted in poetic form. Italics and cross references were thoroughly checked. Most importantly, Scrivener thoroughly documented his work. He noted errors in earlier editions and provided a “List of Passages in which this Edition follows others in departing from the Text of 1611.”

    Scrivener’s edition of the text has been reprinted in later editions, but we wanted the whole thing, with all of the appendices and notes, straight from the original. So we began a year-long search for a printed copy that we could borrow long enough to photograph at high resolution using our robotic book scanner.

    During our search, Cambridge University Press released A Textual History of the King James Bible, by David Norton. Norton’s book is a companion to the recently released New Cambridge Paragraph Bible, the latest and possibly most definitive KJV edition to date.

    Norton’s book is an awe-inspiringly detailed look at the history of the text itself, and its preservation and corruption over the years. (I use the word corruption as a technical, not theological, term.) It reinforced for us the conclusion that identifying a definitive “real KJV” is nearly impossible. It also made it clear that nobody spent more time on the problem than Scrivener. (In explaining why no work was done on the cross references in his New Cambridge Paragraph Bible, Norton confesses to lacking Scrivener’s energy. If you read this book, you will confess to lacking the energy of either of them.)
    Rob
     
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  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    THIS edition should be the one for the KJVO then!
     
  12. Conan

    Conan Active Member

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    Why? Why not the 1611 edition?
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    the 1873 seems to be the one that has revised and corrected most of the mistakes in the 1611 Kjv!
     
  14. Conan

    Conan Active Member

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    And introduced others! Why not the New Cambridge Paragraph Bible verses Scriveners Paragraph Bible?
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    such as?
     
  16. Conan

    Conan Active Member

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  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  18. Conan

    Conan Active Member

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    #19 Conan, Jun 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
  19. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Has it been soundly proven that "strain out" at Matthew 23:24 would be an error?

    The rendering "strain out" is in agreement with all the pre-1611 English Bibles of which the KJV was a revision and is in agreement with the meaning of the Greek.

    Has it been soundly proven that the truth of the Greek demanded that this change be introduced in the 1611?
    Could the change in the 1611 be considered a change for the sake of change or an unnecessary change that was not demanded by the Greek?
     
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