Anyone get out of KJV?

I was introduced to KJVOnlyism as a child through Jack Chick comics as well. As an adult, I have been studying the issue for myself. I bought books by Les Garret and Riplinger along with videos. I began to see inconsistencies in their arguements. I began to read other translations for myself and have found the accusations rediculous. Riplinger even misquotes the KJV. Then I found every KJVOnlyist arguement was used in the past by the RCC to defend the vulgate against all other versions. I compared early englich versions to the KJV. I no longer justify clinging to what I had been told. So now I use multiple English versions.

 

The factors you mentioned were:
1. "mistranslations, bad translations"
Where does the KJV mistranslate from the Greek text(s) that were used by the translators?

2. "archaic language"
Of course you realize that I cannot accept this as a viable reason. The "archaic" words are so minimal and takes but one simple explanation to understand that they are a non-factor. I could easily list many words in the versions you listed that would require explanations as well.

3. "anglican influence"
As has been pointed out by many MV proponents, it is the scholarship of the translator(s) that are the key, not that the doctrinal leanings are unimportant, but they do not detract from translating a Greek word into English.

If the KJV was Scripture then, and I've found few that would deny that it was, then it is still Scripture today and is still performing it's intended purpose. Our little church has seen many people come to know God through the Scriptures this year. Praise the Lord!

I'd say that was more of a Calvinistic viewpoint. God only chose those who could speak English to be saved. I believe that salvation is free to all men who will recieve Him. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

What a gross misrepresentation of the KJV to say that one must understand "Elizabethan English" to understand it. My children have never been taught such English, yet they understand their KJV Bibles.

You must also reject the testimony of Christians for the past 400 years. You must also reject texual scholars who confirm that the KJV is an accurate translation of the extant manuscript evidence.

Can you not see that you are doing what you accuse the KJVO crowd of doing. You are telling them that their Bible is inferior and that your's is superior. You are saying that their Bible does not fulfill the requirement to be classified as Scripture and in fact, "betrays" that very purpose. How is that any different? </font>[/QUOTE]I have personally made a number of cpomparisons between the Greek text and the KJV and found the KJV seriously wanting for the person to accurately understand today.

I would like a report form you fro us so we can see how you approach what I will suggest. Look up the word "conversation" in the KJV concordance and then the word it was translated from in the Greek text and compare that to the definition of conversation in any Webster's dictionary that most any person would use today and see how the KJV usage compares with the definition of the word "conversation." That is just one word. There are many more. The Greek word is far different than what the KJV translates. It is simply because the word has changed meaning since the translation or revison of the translation.

For example the word in the Greek most often menas way of life. The KJV tranlsates it conversation. The meaning of conversation is speech. Speech is not a way of life in

Phil. 3:20 KJS, "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:"

Phil 3:20 NASU. "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;"

Hebrews 13:5 KJS, "Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Hebrews 13:5 NASU, "Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, "I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you,"

Hebrews 13:7 KJS, "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation."

Hebrews 13:7 NASU, "Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith."

con·ver·sa·tion, n.
1. informal interchange of thoughts, information, etc., by spoken words; oral communication between persons; talk; colloquy.
2. an instance of this.
3. association or social intercourse; intimate acquaintance.
4. See criminal conversation.
5. the ability to talk socially with others: She writes well but has no conversation.
6. Obs.
a. behavior or manner of living.
b. close familiarity; intimate acquaintance, as from constant use or study.

Number six is declared Obs.

 

Tears of repentance?

 

Tears of repentance? </font>[/QUOTE]No. It's just sad that the devil has sucked so many good people into believing a lie.

 

What does MSS mean?

We are/were KJVO, but we are having a hard time believing that God's preserved word is a state issued Bible.

 

Manuscripts. Also, if you believe in the King James Bible and the God that it preaches, don't give up on it, it never gives up on you.

 

I am going to honor my co-moderator's request and see that this thread remains on topic. If you would like to initiate a new thread dealing with this topic, I would be most happy to share the very simple answer to your query.

Pastor Bob

 

Howdy all,

The Lord saved me in 1999 at the age of 22 after years of trying to convince myself I was saved at 8 years old. I was reading the NIV at the time. I immediately picked up my other bible (KJV) and started reading it, hungry for the word, and at that time I also felt led of the Lord to work with youth. After attending a local Southern Baptist church for a few months (started attending regularly after I was saved), I was asked to be the youth minister. We had been going to the church for about eight months when the pastor (who was using the NASB) left out what I thought was an essential verse that was in the KJV. I went home and looked on the internet to see what people did when there was a contradiction between the versions of the bible, and I was introduced to the KJVo debate. I found a website (I still have it bookmarked, believe it or not) that described the differences between the KJV and NASB. I thought it was interesting and had no idea what to do with this information, so I gave it to my pastor to read (I printed out like 100 pages). Oh how I wish he would have directed me away from the KJVo position at that point, but he did not. He told me that he had read it but wouldn't discuss it with me.

I continued reading on the issue but most of the info on-line was pro-KJVo back then, so I became further entrenched in the KJVo position. Finally, the time came when I couldn't stay in the church I was a youth minister in for fear of causing difficulties within the church. There were some other things that brought us to the point of leaving as well, not just the versions issue.

In early 2000, My wife and I started hunting for a church to go to, and we found a little Independent Fundamental Church in a town close to where we live. The people seemed so alive there, and it was a church that used only the KJV! We didn't have to worry about contradicting scripture. We immediately felt at home, and the people made us feel so welcome. All through this time, the KJVo issue was preached and taught, and I started attending doctrines classes to learn the deeper doctrines, one of which happened to be why the church is KJVo.

Oh, I became the ardent, stalwart defender of the ol' King James, and thought nothing of the plaque hanging on the pulpit that said "KJV 1611" with a picture of a sword on it. I had bought in completely. Things went fine for two years, and I surrendered to the call into the ministry. The office of a Bishop, that is. By the way, I know that I was called into the ministry by how it happened, but that is a subject for a different thread.

Things were going along fine until several things happened. First, I was introduced to Peter S. Ruckman. Second, I was introduced to the "doctrine" that people could only be saved by reading the KJV. Third, I logged on to BaptistBoard.

1. A great friend of mine loaned me some Ruckman books, and I began to read them. I could not see Christ in Ruckman to any extent at all, so I began to doubt that what he was teaching was the truth. I was later surprised to find out that most of what KJVo people believe was passed through Ruckman in the early 1960's. This foul-mouthed graceless individual started my search, but I was still staunchly entrenched in the KJVo position.

2. While sitting in one of the aforementioned "doctrines classes," the teacher brought up the point that because the NIV, NASB, etc. were corrupt seed (II Peter?), people couldn't be saved from them. In fact, the teacher guaranteed that we knew no one with a genuine testimony that was saved from a bible other than the KJV. He asked for a raise of hands. I was the only one to raise my hand, and I said "I'm pretty sure that people can be saved from other versions, as I was reading the NIV when I was saved." That brought stammering and then we went on to the next point. I knew something wasn't right here. Let me point out that this in no way made me question my salvation, just the idea that was presented in class.

3. Ah yes, the BaptistBoard. Those who have been active in the Bible Versions Forum since November 2002 can testify that I came in defending the KJVo position. I earnestly tried not to be the graceless person I saw in Peter Ruckman, and after debating a month or two I had to concede a few points to the MVers such as the copyright issue. I posted most of my posts during the time from November to January, and then went into almost a full-time study of the bible versions issue. I found a book written by a bunch of guys from Central Theological Seminary at the public library in my town of all places. I studied, viewed the BaptistBoard, studied, viewed the BaptistBoard, etc.

If I was to say one thing threw me over the top regarding bible versions, it was Acts 12:4 and Psalm 12:6-7. I downloaded the Geneva bible (1595 version or something) and it agrees with the modern versions in both cases ("thou shalt preserve him" and "passover"). Wow, I said, here is the bible of the early Baptists, of the Puritains as well, and it reads essentially the same as the modern versions in these two cases.

I'm really sorry this post is so long, but you can't go through a four year life journey and have it condensed to a few paragraphs.

This brings me to my position now. I am no longer KJVo. I am no longer KJVo. I am no longer KJVo. I think the only reason I'm still KJVp is because aside from a NASB new testament, it is the only bible I have that is useable. If anyone has an ESV sitting around collecting dust, I'll pay for shipping.

The issues that I face now are not enviable but at least I am headed in the right direction, truth, Jesus Christ who is the truth. I am currently in a KJVo church, having invested two years to studying in this church under this pastor. I am preaching in this church, being sent to other churches as pulpit supply (KJVo also), and am expected to be sent out of this church. I have made my concerns about the bible versions issue known, but not loudly enough. I know I'm called to the ministry, but I also know that it would not be right to be sent out from this church because I don't hold doctrinal agreement with what they would consider an essential.

For those of you who are still KJVo, I still consider you brothers and sisters in Christ. I just cannot any longer hold to a position as untenable as the KJVo position. I must do as my conscience dictates and follow the Lord rather than man. Too much of my identity was wrapped up in being KJVo and not in being a follower of Christ.

Leaving the KJVo position is a most difficult task. With the church issue, I just don't know where to turn next.

Lord help me.

Jason

 

Jason,

I'm KJVO, but:

1) I think Dr. Ruckman is a false teacher, and
2) of course I believe people can be saved from other versions.

Easter, though a confusing term today, could mean the Jewish Passover in 1611 (check the OED). Psalm 12:7 is debatable, but in no way does God's promise of preservation rest on this verse alone.

Continue thinking and praying about this, and please be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The KJVO position is not monolithic.

KJVO, at it's heart, is (or at least should be) about following Christ, and respecting his commands enough to not be continually doubting their authenticity, with trust in God's promises of preservation.

Btw, I have an ESV I'd be happy to send you, just let me know your address.

 

Timothy 1769:

I guess it didn't really come out in my previous post, but it wasn't those two things that drove me from the KJVo position, it was those two that got me thinking. It was only after all the studying since that I came to my current position.

Jason

 

OK, no problem. If you PM me with your current address, I'd be happy to send you my ESV. I've got a box full of modern versions in the garage, so if there's anything else you'd like I probably have it too. You might be interested in the NKJV and the ALT (an extremely literal translation of the majority text).

 

no kidding indeed! the minute they see ur shadow darken their doorway, the KNOW here comes the card-carryin, mindworshippin, Bible-correctin Alexandrian cultist!

i've got family who r just like that, too, n it's just pathetic, how they choose to believe a lie. but take heart, God's the God of the miraculous, as some of the testimonies we've seen confirms.

 

I am sure there are plenty of people like this. I used to be a stubborn soul myself. But if a person is truly seeking the Lord, He will reveal the truth!

My pastor always says "Truth is never afraid of question"

 

Oh my! Yes, those wretched KJV translators who corrected the KJB on several occassions even adding 1 John 5:7 to it from the infamous Latin Vulgate eek!

HankD

 

Anyone else have a story? I'm interested reading them. There have only been a handful so far on a three-page post. Fess up!

Jason

 

Refreshed, that is the best post (your testimony)i've seen on Baptistboard since I've been here a couple months. It not only tackles the issue but is very graceful. Here is my story:
I grew up as a son of a IFB minister in the 70's. I never heard of any KJV debate, as a matter of fact I remember some ministers that my dad would invite to preach using different versions. It was just never an issue. (now long hair, that's another story!! )

Anyway, the first time I was introduced to KJVO was through a chick comic book around 1986. When I graduated from high school in 1988, a few things happened in my life that made me think that all preachers were hypocrites and phoneys. Anyway, through the convicting of the Holy Spirit I began attending an American Baptist Church. There I started dating my future wife. We were married in 11/1989. I moved my membership to her church and attended faithfully.

In 1994, I announced my calling to preach. A few things happened and I found myself drifting from associational churches and found myself athome in a IFB KJVO SEPARATIONAL Church. I still love the Pastor there, even though we now disagree on a few things. I was taught all the things "refreshed" was taught and even believed that in order to be Fundamental you had to be KJVO.

I was youth pastor at a few KJVO churches before I became senior pastor at an American Baptist Church that was also KJVO. While there I was ordained as an American Baptist and was elected to the position of Moderator to our local association of churches (about 20). I've since moved on and am now a Youth Pastor at a church that is not KJVO.

Within the last year, the KJVO position has split one church in our association and has about split another. At our annual meeting KJVO was the hot topic. So much that the churches are asking for a class to find the truth.

As moderator, a year ago, I was KJVO. But since this debate has sprung up locally, I have been digging for the truth myself and am now not KJVO. Below are some reasons:

1) The hateful attitude of KJVonlies.
2) Is. 61 and Luke 4:18
3) The misquoting of Ps 12:6,7
4) Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 (If the bible meant Joshua the KJV translators should have said joshua)
5) Upon searching the internet for the KJVO debate, I stumbled upon Baptistboard and after reading and participating in a few discussions I realize that the KJVO position is full of lies and unanswered questions that keep getting repeated.
6) It seems that all KJVOnlies despise people with, As they put it, a "cemetary" education. especially here locally.
7) As a youth pastor, when I read parts of the KJV (for instance the "bowel" scriptures) You can imagine the "duh" looks I get from my students that only know modern english.
8)The youth of today are pressured enough without having to learn a foreign language (yes 17th century english is foreign to them!)
9) the prideful statement that "if you are truly Godly The Holy Spirit will reveal to you the meaning of Archaic words."
10) The destruction of God's Churches by KJVO.
11) finding out The KJV was copyrighted!!!!!!

I could go on but won't. Anyway, I still love my KJVO friends. I even go to them for advice sometimes. After all, we all are searching for the truth, and the Christian life is a journey to be more Christ like.

 

Welcome to the truth. The dark side has seduced many. Thankfully, you have been spared.

 

Tears of repentance? </font>[/QUOTE]No. It's just sad that the devil has sucked so many good people into believing a lie. </font>[/QUOTE]amen!