Archaeology and the Book of Mormon

Gina, thanks for the explanation. I will not post further on this but would like to make one point in response. It is not what someone thinks is essential to Christianity -- the Trinity has been an essential belief of the historical, orthodox Christian faith for 2,000 years. It is as essential as the deity of Christ. The historical essentials are pretty few: the deity of Christ, the nature of God (which inludes the Trinitarian God), atonement of Christ and his bodily resurrection. Men died for these beliefs, and teachings against them were condemned as heresy. To allow Oneness people to post as Christians is giving a message that we can consider a modalistic God as Christian. This is entirely unacceptable to me and frankly, I do not understand the BB's position on this.

Well, this is the last time I will post on this topic here. Thanks again.

 

Marcia,

Totally, 100%, agreed.

Bro Tony

 

Take a look at http://www.hismin.com/

http://www.hismin.com/Offer.html

 

Marcia, inquiring is perfectly valid and reasonable.
I cannot speak for the owner of the board or other moderators, so this is me simply speaking as me.
It sounds like it's mostly a matter of semantics to me, although I admit I'm not too familiar with the denomination.
It still does seem to state that they still believe in the functions of the Holy Spirit, Christ, and the Father. They do not seem to deny that there are three different manifestations there, but instead of calling them three separate persons that make up one God, they recognize instead that all are God, one God.
Sometimes it seems to me that people like us separate them to a point where we almost sound polytheistic. I don't believe we are, but I certainly understand the line of thought the Oneness people go by, but do not understand why you would think that such a belief undermines who Jesus is.
Will you please explain it in more detail?
Gina

 

"Manifestations" would be the heresy known as Modalism.

 

"Manifestations" would be the heresy known as Modalism. </font>[/QUOTE]Since I'm the only Oneness person, I think, on this BB, let me ask a question.

Jude, if you think that "Manifestations" is heresy known as Modalism (belief in one God) read 1 Tim. 3:16 and tell me how I'm to believe anything other that one God?

1 Tim. 3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

That is scripture and not heresy!

MEE

 

Bro Tony
I heard it on a Radio show one time. If you do a search on google looking for Egpytian artifacts found in cave in IL you showed see it. IT is said that the man who found them almost fell in a cave and that was how he came across them. IT just seem interesting that Joseph Smith which I think was in IL for a time. Found the Tablets or what ever they were written in Egyptian. So He or one of the mormon followers could have placed it there so as not to prove the Mormon church was just made up of bits and pieces taken from other religions and a Fraternity.

The story I heard behind the cave is that it was possibly from some Israelies, Egyptians and Phoecsians that fled from Rome around 100A.D. and made it to America and sailed up the Ole Miss to IL. They all were suppose to have worshiped God. Also it is said that this is were the Ten Commandments found in New Mexico engraved in stone comes from and also one of the cities in South America is suppose to have the same name as a city the Phoecians got there gold from. It is possible for people to have traveled to Americas. Primative man was not as primative as we thought. People have proven that the reed boats can make a trans atlantic voyage and also shown how some South American Indians made Hot Air Ballons.

 

Bro Tony gives a very good detail towards the beginning of this thread of BoM claims vs archaeological finds, which, presuming Mormons are supposed to take the BoM literally, contradict its claims. Thanks Bro Tony for this.

 

Hi, Gina,

Thanks for your message.

Denying the Trinity is not a matter of semantics.

The Oneness followers believe that God takes on 3 roles -- so Jesus does not really have a Father; He is the Father. The HS did not come after Jesus ascended, the HS is Jesus/God but not a distinct Being. God, Jesus, and the HS are all the same Being who appear in different forms or manifestations.

This view, called modalism, was a 3rd century heresy called Sabellianism (similar to another heresy called Modalistic Monarchianism.

 

Part 2 of post:

Oneness belief is a denial of the Biblical God and the Biblical Jesus. If they are the same Being, then Jesus was not praying to God the Father in all the passages that show this; Jesus was not telling the truth when he said he would go to the Father, or when he said on the cross that he was commiting his spirit to the Father.

The Oneness view conflicts with scripture in that God's word tells us that God is spirit. God does not have a body. But Jesus did come in a body and has a resurrected body. This makes the Oneness view at odds with scripture here. This is only one of many conflicts with scritpture.

It provokes a whole host of Biblical problems. Of course, the Oneness groups have responses for these, but the responses are not based on sound Biblical interpretation at all (which is true of all groups that teach heresies -- JW's, Mormons, Moonies, etc. all use the Bible to try to back up their views).

 

I had to divide my message to post and in so doing, lost some of it. I can't recall all that was lost, but I know this link was lost. It's a profile of Oneness on a good Christian site.

http://www.watchman.org/profile/onenesspro.htm

Modalism has been declared a heresy for almost the whole history of Christianity. It is a serious heresy to deny the Trinity.

Evangelical pastors would never knowingly invite a Oneness pastor to speak in their church, just as they would not invite a Mormon to speak. Oneness believers are considered to be outside of the Christian church. They are not considered to be fellow believers historically nor today, by the Body of Christ.

 

John,

You are welcome. There is much more, but what I stated alone should give Mormons pause to think.

Jacob,

thanks, I will check out the website.

Bro Tony

 

http://www.sundaymagazine.org/Topstory6.ihtml