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Archaic Words In The KJV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, May 24, 2006.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    1 Kings

    4:28 dromedaries

    other horses

    4:29 and largeness of heart

    and a breadth of understanding

    5:14 and Adoniram was over the levy

    Adoniram was in charge of the forced labor

    5:15 hewers in the mountains

    stonecutters in the hills

    8:47 Yet if they shall bethink themselves

    if they have a change of heart

    10:2 And she came to Jerusalem with a very great train

    Arriving at Jerusalem with a very great caravan

    10:5 and his ascent by which he went up unto the house of the Lord ; there was no more spirit in her

    the burnt offerings he made at the temple of the Lord , she was overwhelmed

    10:29 did they bring them out by their means

    They also exported them

    11:1 But King Solomon loved many strange women

    King Solomon , however , loved many foreign women

    14:4 for his eyes were set by reason of his age

    his eyes were gone because of his age

    16:13 their vanities

    their worthless idols

    16:31 as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins

    not only considered it to be trivial to commit the sins

    16:34 he laid the foundation thereof in Abiram his firstborn

    He laid its foundations at the cost of his firstborn

    17:18 What have I to do with thee , O thou man of God ? art thou comeunto me to call my sinto remembrance

    What do you have against me , man of God ? Did you come to remind me of my sin

    17:20 hast thou also brought evil upon the widow

    have you brought tragedy even on this widow

    17:21 let this child's soul come into him again

    let this boy's life return to him !

    18:26 And they leaped upon the altar which was made

    And they danced around the altar they had made .


    I already gave some verses for 2 Kings earlier , but I am not sure if I gave this remarkable rendering from the KJV in 9:30 : Jezebal heard of it ; she painted her face and tired her head .

    TNIV : When Jezebel heard about it , she painted her eyes , arranged her hair
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    1 Chronicles

    2:7 the troubler of Israel , who transgressed in the thing accursed

    who brought trouble on Israel by violating the ban on taking devted things

    4:10 enlarge my coast , and that thine hand might be with me , and that thou wouldest keep me from evil , that it may not grieve me !

    enlarge my territory ! Let your hand be with me , and keep me from harm so that I will be free from pain .

    4:41 destroyed them utterly unto this day

    completely destroyed them , as is evident to this day

    6:54 throughout their castles in their coasts

    settlements allotted as their territory

    6:66 the residue of their families

    Some of the Kohathite clans

    7:23 because it went evil with his house

    because there had been misfortune in his family

    10:9 to carry tidings unto their idols , and to the people

    to proclaim the news among their idols and their people

    12:33 they were not of double heart

    with undivided loyalty

    12:40 they that were neigh them

    their neighbors

    13:11 David was displeased

    David was angry

    15:13 the Lord our God made a breach upon us , for that we sought him not after the due order

    the Lord our God broke out in anger against us . We did not inquire of him about how to do it in the prescribed way .

    16:3 a good piece of flesh , a flagon of wine

    a cake of dates and a cake of raisins

    16:21 He suffered no man to do them wrong

    He allowed no one to oppress them

    21:22 that the plague may be stayed for the people

    that the plague on the people may be stopped

    22:5 young and tender

    young and inexperienced

    25:8 And they cast lots , ward against ward , as well the small as the great , the teacher as the scholar .

    Young and old alike , teacher as well as student , cast lots for their duties .

    26:1 the porters

    the gatekeepers

    29:30 the times that went over him

    the circumstances that surrounded him
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    2 Chronicles

    1:2 the chief of the fathers

    the heads of families

    2:2 Solomon told out

    He conscripted

    2:7 brass ... cunning men

    bronze ... skilled workers

    4:1 he made an altar of brass

    He made a bronze altar

    6:23 by requiting the wicked , by recompensing his way upon his own head

    condemning the guilty and bringing down on their heads what they have done

    6:37 bethink themselves

    have a change of heart

    7:6 waited on their offices

    took their positions

    8:16 the house of the Lord was perfected

    the temple of the Lord was completed

    9:2 told her all her questions

    answered all her questions

    9:4 there was no more spirit in her

    she was overwhelmed

    9:14 chapman

    traders

    11:23 unto every fenced city : and he gave them victual in abundance

    to all the fortified cities . He gave them abundant provisions

    13:7 young and tenderhearted , and could not withstand them

    young and indecisive and not strong enough to resist them

    13:21 waxed mighty

    grew in strength

    16:14 prepared by the apothecaries' art

    blended perfumes

    18:26 feed him with bread of affliction and water of affliction , until I return in peace

    give him nothing but bread and water until I return safely .

    19:10 this do , and ye shall not trespass .

    Do this , and you will not sin .

    21:17 carried away all the substance

    carried off all the goods

    24:10 until they had made an end

    until it was full

    29:6 the habitation of the Lord

    the Lord's dwelling place

    33:9 to err

    led... astray

    34:11 artificers

    carpenters

    34:28 all the evil

    all the disaster
     
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Some of these, I wonder how many people consider archaic. For example, TRAIN. This word comes from French into Middle English, and among its meanings is a procession or a group moving in file. Thus, railroad TRAIN came into usage, as its components must move in file upon its tracks. OTOH, CARAVAN is from ancient Persian & means essentially the same thing, as a procession of camels. I doubt if too many have any difficulty with "train" of camels or horses.

    "dromedaries"...from the Latin 'dromedarius' a runner. For a long time, dromedary has been associated with camels. And in 1 Kings 4:28, men brought fodder for both horses and dromedaries. I realize that the Hebrew word there rendered "dromedaries" is 'rekesh', which is rendered "horse, steed, or mule" elsewhere, but the context of the surrounding verses, especially in light that 4:28 first says 'cuwc', "swift horses", and that camels can eat whatever horses can eat, plus many other things horses cannot eat, the KJV's rendering makes perfect sense.

    In 2 Chronicles 9:14, "chapman" was a merchant or trader in Merrie old England in 1611, and still is today. That term has fallen outta use in the USA, but I'm sure any British reader here will affirm it's still in use in England. But I reckon few Americans not named Chapman would know its meaning now.
     
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Ezra , Nehemiah and Esther

    Ezra

    2:62 therefore were they , as polluted , put from the priesthood

    but they could not find them and so were excluded from the priesthood as unclean

    7:26 let judgment be executed speedily upon him

    must surely be punished

    9:7 confusion of face

    humiliation

    9:14 and join in affinity with the people

    intermarry with the people

    10:19 they gave their hands

    they gave their hands in pledge


    Nehemiah

    4:15 brought their counsel to nought

    had frustrated it

    4:16 habergeons

    armor

    4:23 saving that everyone put them off for washing

    even when he went for water

    5:7 I consulted with myself

    I pondered them in my mind

    5:13 I shook my lap

    I also shook out the folds of my robe

    6:4 they sent unto me four times after this sort

    Four times they sent me the same message

    6:8 thou feignest them out of thine own heart

    you are just making it up out of your head

    9:29 withdrew the shoulder

    Stubbornly they turned their backs on you

    9:30 many years didst thou forbear them

    For many years you were patient with them

    13:8 it grieved me sore

    I was greatly displeased

    13:26 the outlandish women

    foreign women


    Esther

    3:6 and he thought scorn to lay his hands

    he scorned the idea of killing

    3:15 the city Shushan was perplexed

    but the city of Susa was bewildered

    4:14 then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise

    relief and deliverance ... will arise

    7:8 Will he force the queen

    Will he even molest the queen ?

    9:16 they laid not their hands on the prey

    but did not lay their hands on the plunder

    9:31 their cry

    lamentation

    10:3 and speaking peace to all his seed

    and spoke up for the welfare of all the Jews
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Job , Chapters 1-9

    1:2 eschewed evil

    shunned evil

    1:5 Job sent and sanctified them

    made arrangements for them to be purified

    1:17 fell upon the camels

    swept down on your camels

    2:9 Dost thou still retain thine integrity ?

    Are you still maintaining your integrity ?

    3:1 cursed his day

    cursed the day of his birth

    3:24 For my sighing cometh before I eat , and my roarings are poured out like the waters .

    For sighing has become my daily food ; my groans pour out like water .

    4:2 If we assay to commune with thee , wilt thou be grieved ?

    If someone ventures a word with you , will you be impatient ?

    5:3 I have seen the foolish taking root : but suddenly I cursed his habitation .

    I myself have seen a fool taking root , but suddenly his house was cursed .

    5:13 the counsel of the froward is carried headlong .

    the schemes of the wily are swept away .

    5:16 iniquity stoppeth her mouth .

    injustice shuts its mouth .

    6:3 therefore my words are swallowed up.

    no wonder my words have been impetuous .

    6:7 are as my sorrowful meat .

    such food makes me ill .

    6:21 ye see my casting down , and are afraid .

    you see something dreadful and are afraid .

    6:26 Do ye imagine to reprove words , and the speeches of one that is desperate , which are as wind ?

    Do you mean to correct what I say , and treat my desperate words as wind ?

    6:29 Return , I pray you , let it not be iniquity ; yea , return again , my righteousness is in it .

    Relent , do not be unjust ; reconsider , for my integrity is at stake .

    9:33 daysman betwixt us

    someone to arbitrate between us
     
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Job , Chapters 10-15

    10:1 I will leave my complaint upon myself

    I will give free rein to my complaint

    10:17 changes and war are against me

    your forces come against me wave upon wave

    11:17 thine age shall be clearer than the noonday

    Life will be brighter than noonday

    11:20 their hope shall be as the giving up of the ghost

    their hope will become a dying gasp

    12:19 He leadeth away princes spoiled

    He leads priests away stripped

    13:4 But ye are forgers of lies , ye are all physicians of no value

    You , however , smear me with lies ; you are worthless physicians , all of you !

    13:8 Will ye accepthis person ?

    Will you show him partiality ?

    13:12 your bodies to bodies of clay

    your defenses are defenses of clay

    13:15 I will maintain mine own ways before him

    I will surely defend my ways to his face

    15:27 Because he covereth his face with his fatness , and maketh collops of fat on his flanks

    Though their faces are covered with fat and their waists bulge with flesh

    15:29 neither shall he prolong the perfection thereof upon the earth

    nor will their possessions spread over the land
     
  8. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Strange - a dromedary is not a horse at all but a camel.

     
  9. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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  10. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    in 1611 it was a horse:

    Robocop3: //"dromedaries"...from the Latin 'dromedarius' a runner. For a long time, dromedary has been associated with camels. And in 1 Kings 4:28, men brought fodder for both horses and dromedaries. I realize that the Hebrew word there rendered "dromedaries" is 'rekesh', which is rendered "horse, steed, or mule" elsewhere, but the context of the surrounding verses, especially in light that 4:28 first says 'cuwc', "swift horses", and that camels can eat whatever horses can eat, plus many other things horses cannot eat, the KJV's rendering makes perfect sense.//

    Until you tear down robocop's argument, we have to live it with.
    In 1611 'dromedaries' archaicly meant 'horses'.
    in 2006 'dromedaries' is a type of camel
     
  11. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Ed, if that's what you want to believe, go right ahead. No one is stopping you. But before you make your decision, please examine the uses of dromedary/dromedaries in the KJV. Dromedaries appears in 1 Kings 4:28, Esther 8:10 and Isaiah 60:6. Dromedary appears in Jeremiah 2:23. In none of these cases is there any indication the word has to do with horses - in fact, in 1 Kings 4:28 if dromedaries meant horses the verse would be quite redundant, indicating that barley and straw were brought for the horses and for the horses.

    The dromedary is also known as the Arabian racing camel, and it was first domesticated in Arabia sometime between 4000 B.C. and 1400 B.C. (see the Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dromedary for more clarification). To say that in 1611 dromedary meant horse is to add a meaning that was never there.
     
  12. AntennaFarmer

    AntennaFarmer Member

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    Apparently in 1611 a dromedary was also a type a camel. Compare Jer. 2:23 where the word dromedary was translated from the Hebrew bikrah. Strongs has it bikrah = "a young female camel or dromedary." The NKJV renders it as "dromedary" while the NASB has "young camel."

    Maybe some English words had more than one meaning even in 1611, eh Ed?

    A.F.
     
  13. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    1Ki 4:28 (Geneva Bible):
    Barley also and strawe for the horses and mules brought
    they vnto the place where the officers were,
    euery man according to his charge.

    1Ki 4:28 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Barley also and straw for the horses and dromedaries, brought
    they vnto the place where the officers were,
    euery man according to his charge.

    1 Kings 4:28 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):
    Each man brought the barley and the straw
    for the chariot teams and the other horses
    to the required place according to his assignment.

    Robocop3: //"dromedaries"...from the Latin 'dromedarius' a runner. For a long time, dromedary has been associated with camels. And in 1 Kings 4:28, men brought fodder for both horses and dromedaries. I realize that the Hebrew word there rendered "dromedaries" is 'rekesh', which is rendered "horse, steed, or mule" elsewhere, but the context of the surrounding verses, especially in light that 4:28 first says 'cuwc', "swift horses", and that camels can eat whatever horses can eat, plus many other things horses cannot eat, the KJV's rendering makes perfect sense.//

    The AUTHORIZED VERSION (AKA: KJV1769 Edition)
    confirms the statement of Brother Robocop3.

    1 Kings 4:28 (KJV1769):
    Barley also and straw forthe horses and dromedaries F24 brought
    they unto the place where the officers were,
    every man according to his charge.

    FOOTNOTES:
    F24: dromedaries: or, mules, or, swift beasts
     
  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Back to regular programming

    Job 19 - 29

    19:17 My breath is strange to my wife , though I intreated for the children's sake of my own body .

    My breath is offensive to my wife ; I am loathsome to my own family .

    20:18 according to his substance shall the restitution be

    he will not enjoy the profit from his trading

    20:20 he shall not save of that which he desired

    he can not save himself by his treasure

    20:22 In the fulness of his sufficiency he shall be in straits

    In the midst of his plenty , distress will overtake him

    21:10 Their bull gendereth ... and casteth not her calf

    Their bulls never fail to breed ; their cows calve and do not miscarry .

    21:29 Have ye not asked them that go by the way ? and do ye not know their tokens ?

    Have you never questioned those who travel ? Have you paid no regard to their accounts --

    21:33 The clods of the valley shall be sweet unto him

    The soil in the valley is sweet to them

    22:20 Whereas our substance is not cut down

    Surely our foes are destroyed

    22:28 Thou shalt also decree a thing , and it shall be established unto thee

    What you decide on will be done

    23:13 But he is in one mind

    But he stands alone

    26:5 Dead things are formed from under the waters

    The dead are in deep anguish

    26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens ; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent .

    By his breath the skies became fair ; and his hand pierced the gliding serpent .

    27:2 whohath taken away my judgment

    who has denied me justice

    28:23 God understandeth the way thereof

    God understands the way to it

    29:24 If I laughed on them , they believed it not ; and the light of my countenance they cast not down .

    When I smiled at them , they scarcely believed it ; the light of my face was precious to them .
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Job ,Chapters 30-42

    30:1 dogs of my flock

    sheep dogs

    30:11 they also throw off restraint in my presence

    30:27 My bowels boiled , and rested not

    The churning inside me never stops

    31:10 Then let my wife grind unto another , and let others bow down upon her .

    then may my wife grind another man's grain , and may other men sleep with her .

    32:18 For I am full of matter , the spirit within me constraineth me .

    For I am full of words , and the spirit within me compels me .

    32:21 Let me not ...accept any man's person

    I will show no partiality

    33:6 I am according to thy wish in God's stead

    I am the same as you in God's sight

    33:16 and sealeth their instruction

    and terrify them with warnings

    34:6 Should I lie against my right ?

    Although I am right , I am considered a liar

    34:29 When he giveth quietness , who then can make trouble ?

    But if he remains silent , who can condemn him ?

    34:33 Should it be according to thy mind ? he will recompense it , whether thou refuse , orwhether thou choose ; and not I

    Should God then reward you on your terms , when you refuse to repent ? You must decide , not I

    35:2 thou saidst , My righteousness is more than God's ?

    You say , I am in the right and not God .

    36:23 Who hath enjoined him his way ?

    Who has prescribed his ways for him

    36:33 [ A classic ! ] The noise thereof sheweth concerning it , the cattle also concerning the vapour .

    His thunder announces the coming storm ; even the cattle make known its approach .

    38:31 the sweet influences

    the chains

    39:1 canst thou mark when the hinds do calve ?

    Do you watch when the doe bears her fawn ?

    39:9 unicorn

    wild ox

    41:11 Who hath prevented me

    Who has a claim against me

    41:12-15 [ I have done this one elsewhere ]

    42:9 the Lord also accepted Job

    the Lord accepted Job's prayer .
     
  16. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    Okay, I'll buy swift beasts since dromedaries were first considered racing camels...
     
  17. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Psalms 2-19

    2:1 Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing ?

    Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain ?

    5:9 their inward part is very wickedness

    their heart is filled with malice

    7:14 he travaileth with iniquity

    those who are pregnant with evil

    8:2 thou hast ordained strength

    you have established a stronghold

    11:4 his eyelids try

    his eyes examine

    12:8 the vilest men are exalted

    depravity is honored

    14:5 for God is in the generation of the righteous

    for God is present in the company of the righteous

    15:3 nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbor

    who cast no slur on others

    15:4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned

    who despise those whose ways are vile

    17:10 They are enclosed in their own fat

    They close up their callous hearts

    18:43 Thy hast delivered me from the strivings of the people

    You have delivered me from the attacks of the people

    19:4 Their line has gone through all the earth

    Yet their voice goes out into all the earth

    19:7 converting the soul

    refreshing the soul

    19:13 presumptuous sins

    willful sins
     
  18. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Psalms 21-39

    21:11 they imagined a mischievous device

    devise wicked schemes

    22:1 the words of my roaring

    the words of my groaning

    26:4 neither will I go in with dissemblers

    nor do I associate with hypocrites

    27:13 I had fainted , unless I had believed to see

    I remain confident of this : I will see

    31:20 the strife of tongues

    accusing tongues

    34:13 thy lips from speaking guile

    your lips from telling lies

    35:15 the abjects gathered themselves together against me and I knew it not

    assailants gathered against me without my knowledge

    35:17 my darling

    my precious life

    37:37 Mark the perfect man

    Consider the blameless

    38:8 I have roared by reason of the disquietness of my heart

    I groan in anguish of heart

    38:11 My lovers and my friends stand aloof

    My friends and companions avoid me

    38:19 mine enemies are lively

    Many have become my enemies without cause

    38:20 I follow the thing that good is

    I seek only to do what is good

    39:1 the wicked is before me [ just bad English , even if it was once considered good ]

    in the presence of the wicked

    39:6 Surely every man walketh in a vain shew : surely they are disquieted in vain

    Surely everyone goes around like a mere phantom ; in vain they rush about

    39:11 thou makest his beauty to consume away like a moth

    you consume their wealth like a moth
     
  19. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Psalms 40-59

    40:15 Let them be desolate for a reward of their shame

    be appalled at their own shame

    42:7 Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts

    Deep calls to deep in the roar of your waterfalls

    42:11(and 43:5) the health of my countenance

    my Savior

    44:11 Thou hast given us like sheep appointed for meat

    You gave us up to be devoured like sheep

    45:1 My heart is inditing a good matter

    My heart is stirred by a noble theme

    45:13 The king's daughter is all glorious within

    All glorious is the princess within her chamber

    47:9 the shields of the earth

    the kings of the earth

    48:12 tell the towers thereof

    count her towers

    49:10 bruthish person

    the senseless

    49:18 Though while he lived he blessed his soul

    Though while they live they count themselves blessed

    49:20 Man that is in honour

    Human beings that have wealth

    50:23 him that ordereth his conversation aright

    to the blameless

    51:4 that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest , and be clear when thou judgest

    you are right in your verdict and justified when you judge

    51:12 uphold me with thy free spirit

    grant me a willing spirit , to sustain me

    52:4 Thou lovest all devouring words

    You love every harmful word

    53:4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge ?

    Do all these evildoers know nothing ?

    55:9 divide their tongues

    confound their words

    55:19 they have no changes

    [ nothing ]

    59:15 grudge if they be not satisfied

    howl if not satisfied
     
  20. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Psalm 65 - 89

    65:5 terrible things in righteousness ... who art the confidence

    awesome and righteous deeds ... the hope

    68:8 the heavens also dropped

    the heavens poured down rain

    68:18 thou hast led captivity captive

    you took many captives

    69:10 that was to my reproach

    I must endure scorn

    75:5 speak not with a stiff neck

    do not speak with outstretched neck

    76:5 none of the men of might have found their hands

    not one of the warriors can lift his hands

    77:3 I remembered God , and was troubled : I complained , and my spirit was overwhelmed

    I remembered you , God , and I groaned ; I meditated , and my spirit grew faint .

    78:30 They were not estranged from their lust .ut before they turned from what they craved ,

    81:6 his hands were delivered from the pots

    their hands were set free from the basket

    82:2 accept the persons of the wicked

    show partiality to the wicked

    88:18 Lover and friend

    friend and neighbor

    89:22 The enemy shall not exact upon him

    No enemy will get the better of him



    B
     
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