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Are Christians Better than Non-Christians?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Marcia, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. GeneMBridges

    GeneMBridges New Member

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    As always, Craig, you show a manifest lack of understanding for Incarnational theology. I did not say that Jesus was FULLY God and FULLY sinful Man. I said that, in this life, the Christian is fully saint and fully sinner, which mirrors the Incarnation. :rolleyes:

    I explained that this is not dualism, or are you a proponent of the carnal Christian theory as propogated by Campus Crusade and other groups? We are a new creation with two volitional principles at work within us. While in the Incarnation Christ was perfect, this operative principle in the Christian life is an imperfect representation of the Incarnation. This is called incarnational typology. It is evangelical. It is orthodox. There is nothing "repugnant" about it.


    This isn't outside the bounds of orthodoxy, nor does it require Jesus be a sinner at all. It is simply a mirror, a type, that's all. Do you deny the Chalcedonean Creed?

    Perhaps you should consider that a person that sins is a sinner. Saints sin. That's reality. Do you deny that reality? Seems to me that your anthropology is much to high.

    Your above statements show a central theme: You portrayal Paul's estimate of himself in comparison to OTHER CHRISTIANS. However, you say nothing of the true standard of what makes a person holy...God. The standard of the sinful of sin isn't comparison to each other. Certainly, Paul was not the worst of sinners in comparison to others, should he compare himself to others. However, Paul undestood what you don't seem to understand, that in comparison to an infinite God, sin ALL sin is infinitely sinful. Thus he says what he says. We'd all do well to remember that.

    We are new creations, but we have nothing about which to boast.

    If you wish to boast, go right ahead. I shall not, for what I am, I am because of Christ and Christ alone. I stand with Luther, who wrote that we are, in this life, simultaneously saint and sinner, on the one hand made new, but in practice we still sin against God. The difference is that, for us, atonement has been made and we have been made new creations as a result, but we are far from perfect.

    [ October 23, 2004, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: GeneMBridges ]
     
  2. GeneMBridges

    GeneMBridges New Member

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    And this, like your objection to the general consensus of most exegetes to the interpretation of Romans 7 is purely presupposition. (Not only that you simply assume a rhetorical present tense in Romans 7 and now here). Your anthropology is way to high. (Of course this is to be expected from one who rejects total depravity and routinely caricatures it).
     
  3. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    I have studied hundreds of commentaries on Romans, and I have in my home library 225 commentaries on Romans, and hundreds of additional volumes on Paul and his theology. And I can tell you for fact that there is no “general consensus” among the exegetes of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans. Indeed, the interpretation of Rom. 7:15-25 has pretty much followed the spiritual mood of the times. During the Victorian era, for example, the view that I have presented was by far the most common view. Since the close of the Victorian age and the cessation of major revivals in North America and Europe, we have seen a gradual decline in the number of exegetes who are of my persuasion. Prior to the fourth century, of course, the view that I presented was the only view we have record of.

    I have been studying the seventh chapter of Romans 7 for 31 years, and one of the most interesting aspects of my study has been the correlation between the spiritual health of both the church and the exegete, and the interpretation by the exegete of Rom. 7. And of course this is even more true of the expositors.

    Among Baptist expositors of Romans 7:14-25, we find the full gambit of interpretations—all the way from Paul speaking of himself at the present (very few Baptist expositors have taken this position) to the view that I have expressed (several Baptist expositors have taken that position). Most Baptist expositors, however take a position somewhere in between, largely depending upon where they stand regarding Calvinism and Arminianism and their own personal experience as a Christian.

    For a fine exegetical study of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans whose authors believed as I do, see:

    • William Sanday and Arthur C. Headlam. A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans. T. & T. Clark, First edition, 1895, Fifth edition, 1902.

    This excellent work has been continuously in print for more than 100 years.


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  4. manchester

    manchester New Member

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    Studies have been done. Christians act just like the unsaved. The divorce rate is highest in the Bible Belt, lowest in the Northeast.
     
  5. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Teen pregnancy is highest in the Bible belt too.
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    It is only when we measure spirituality by a set of rules and regulations that we can boast. But when we measure our spirituality by relationship then we have nothing to boast about. We know whether or not we have a good relationship with God.
     
  7. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea Active Member

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    "Christians" act just like the unsaved. Christians do NOT!

    There are a whole lot more Bibles in the Bible Belt than there are Christians.

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