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Are Christians in Trouble Spiritually?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jason1, Apr 18, 2017.

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  1. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the reign of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens.
    Mat 7:22 “Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’
    Mat 7:23 “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’
    Mat 7:24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock,

    In this passage we see "believers" coming to the Master and he casts them away because they are breaking the law. Many will say, "I'm in Christ's law" and they will disregard the Father's law found in the torah. They believe that Jesus did away with His Father's words and brought a new law of love.

    Is this true?

    Joh 8:38 “I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”
    Joh 12:48 “He who rejects Me, and does not receive My Words, has one who judges him: the Word that I have spoken shall judge him in the last day.​

    His Father's words are what He spoke and that word is what we will be judged by (torah). Here are some strong admonitions:

    Joh 8:43 “Why do you not know what I say? Because you are unable to hear My Word.
    Joh 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone guards My Word he shall never see death at all.”
    Joh 8:55 “And you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be like you, a liar. But I do know Him and I guard His Word.
    Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    Rom_2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. ​

    Luk_4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
     
  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Only those who are in Christ are Christians. Self identification is not a guarantee of being in Christ.
     
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  3. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    Does being "in Christ" mean to obey every word of the Father?
     
  4. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    No.

    No one except the Son can obey every word of the Father.
    Being in Christ means that God the Father sees God the Son and his propitiation for our sins. In Christ we have a right standing before the Father.

    Romans 5 and 6 may be helpful for you.
     
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  5. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    Oh. So being "In Christ" means we don't obey every word of the Father? Is that the christian motto?
     
  6. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Nope, I never said that. Re-read my comment. In fact, quote it back for us so you can see what I said.

    Do you obey every thing commanded in the Bible? Are you capable of doing so? (Careful here, it's a trick question. )

    How are we made right in God's sight? Perhaps reading Romans 3 would help you answer this. Come back with your answer after reading the chapter.
     
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  7. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    I'm trying to get a solid statement on obedience from you. We are right in Elohim's sight by Faith in Him, His Son's redemption of us, and by obedience to His torah (word). I do attempt to keep every command that is applicable to me.

    Rev 14:12 Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of Yeshua.
     
  8. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    We ought to try our best to be obedient, but that obedience comes entirely as an expression of gratitude to God for redeeming us when we had no chance at redeeming ourselves. God made us right in Christ. We now live to bring glory to our Redeemer.
    "For I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live. Yet, not I, but Christ lives within me. And the life I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loves me and gave himself for me."
    ~ Galatians 2:20

    Our faith will produce good works. It is faith in Jesus.

    Don't worry. Jesus promises he will never leave us nor forsake us. Rejoice and know God loves you.
     
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  9. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    Very good and I agree with your statements. Now the question to you is on how much you believe in Him.

    Do you show it by your faith and obedience by including these:

    The 7th day sabbath (Honoring the Creator)
    Abstaining from unclean foods (Keeping our temples clean)
    Forsaking idolatry (xmas, easter)
     
  10. John Cloakey

    John Cloakey New Member
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    Where in the text does it state "believers?" "Many..." The anti-Christ(s), the false prophet(s)... This appears a messed up discussion which started with a false premise.
     
  11. Forgiven0777

    Forgiven0777 New Member
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    No one but God, our Lord Christ Yeshua and Savoir is perfect being without sin -
    Christ Yeshua redeemed our spirit not our flesh ,its still sinful and lusts after the things of the world ,our spirit the things of God and so they war one against the other.
    We will not be perfect until the day of resurrection.
    Now though we in and of our selves (flesh) are not perfect our spirit being born again of Christ is perfect for God does not give faulty gifts ; our born again spirit of Christ given us is from above.
    What is born of the flesh (sin) is flesh ; What is born of the Spirit is spirit and sins not ..the flesh sins ...
    If we do sin we have an advocate who is Christ Yeshua .
    Understand in order to grow spiritually that is in understanding and obedience one born again of Christ Yeshua needs to submit to the Spirit within -
    We cannot grow more saved we are saved that is finished ,we can and must grow spiritually ,that is more mature and that means submitting our flesh to the Spirit within-
    Though we will never be Perfect until the day of resurrection perfection is being worked out in our flesh as we submit it to the Spirit within " He who started a good work in you will to the end"
    We are saved by grace and judged by our works that is according to our works we will receive our crown .
    Christians are not sinless but true Christians will not " PRACTICE" sin .
    "In that day I will say to them Depart from Me I NEVER knew you; you who PRACTICE Lawlessness.
    Two key words there are NEVER and PRACTICE ...
    Never knew them, means just that they were never one with the Lord never had a relationship with Him ,their spirit was not reborn of His Spirit and became one with the Lord for they only professed with their libs but their heart was far from the Lord for they continue "Practicing" sin.
    God communes with our spirit not our flesh and that is why when we pray we are to pray in spirit for only our spirit can go before the Throne of Grace in prayer .
    Its not written in the Bible but I believe when we read we must pray first and read ,meditate in our spirit what we are reading for our flesh cannot understand the things ,the Words of God for He is above-
    If we read in our physical conscience we will reason with our flesh what we have read
    " God communes with our spirit not our flesh".
    The reason none can claim to be perfect is because our flesh was not redeemed and that is why we spend more time in their physical conscience than we do in our spiritual conscience ..if we read the Bible more and pray we would do well " Do well to spend more time in the Word less time on the things of the world ... Our spirit desires the things of the Word our flesh the things of the world
    Remember though we (our flesh) will never be perfect I believe perfection is worked out in our flesh when we submit our flesh to the Holy Spirit within to do His Will not the will of our flesh .
    He who started a good work in you will continue until the end in order to do a good work in us we the Clay must submit to the One molding us. Amen...
     
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  12. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    You don't see in the passage that is it people who say they are doing these works "In His Name"? That is a believer who does things for Him, yet disobeys His Words.
     
  13. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Context, man

    Matthew 7
    15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

    23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
     
  14. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    False prophet = religious imposter (Say they are believers, yet are not)
     
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Do you eat shellfish?
    Do you wear cotton and polyester shirts?
    Do you believe that 'attempting' to keep God's commands is sufficient?
    Does your righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees? If so, how?

    Just wondering.:)
     
  16. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    No I don't eat shellfish (against law)
    Yes I wear blended shirts occasionally, just not wool and linen according to torah (get the right translation)
    Both Faith in Yeshua and the keeping of Elohim's commands are (Rev 14:12)
    Yes. I don't follow oral laws and man made religions of hypocrisy.

    How would you answer these?
     
  17. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    At this present time I am reading the Treasury Of David by Charles Spurgeon. For those who don't know it is commentary on the Psalms... The scriptures say David was a man after God's own heart... But to me David in his obedience to the Lord struggled and fell time after time after time and the Lord picked him up time after time after time... It is any different with us?... You see David no mater what condition he was in realized all that he had was because God was is friend... David extolled and praised his God no matter what condition he was in... He didn't praise himself but looked to his God only for help... Are we always going to be obedient and follow the Lord?... I've been like David through trials and tribulation, heartaches and disappointments while trying to be obedient. I have struggled and fell only after the Lord dealing with this poor unworthy worm of the dust brought me to my feet again allowed me to follow him... One poem I love is "Footprints"... if you haven't read it... Read it... This is a great post by the way... Brother Glen:)
     
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  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for your reply. :)
    Mark 7:18. So [Jesus] said to them, "Are you also without understanding? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it goes into his stomach, and is eliminated, Thus purifying all foods? And He said, what comes out of a man, that defiles a man.'
    Acts 10:13-15. 'And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."......."Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean."........."What God has cleansed you must not call common."'
    Romans 14:14. 'I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself.....'
    Deuteronomy 22:11. 'You shall not wear a garment of different sorts, such as wool and linen mixed together.' Polyester had not yet been invented, but the commandment is clear.
    Thank you, but that was not what I asked. I asked if to 'attempt' (your word) to keep God's commands is sufficient. 'For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble at one point, he is guilty of all' (James 2:10).
    Philippians 3:5. 'Concerning the law, a Pharisee......concerning the righteousness that is in the law, blameless.' Is your righteousness greater than that? Otherwise you will by no means enter the kingdom of God (Matthew 5:20).
    '......And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is by faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith' (Philippians 3:9).
     
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  19. Jason1

    Jason1 Member

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    I'm sorry, but your whole post is full of misunderstandings.

    1. Jesus wouldn't contradict written law or he would be a sinner (1 john 3:4)
    2. You didn't look up the words in regards to what is not to be mixed.
    3. You misunderstand what is spoken of in those NT passages of oral law and how nobody can be justified by it. The just and the righteous live by written law. (deu 6:25, rom 2:13)
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, as only Jesus could every do that, but it does mean to receive the Messiah that God sent!
     
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