Are men feminized in our churches?

God's plan is far more infinite than our finite mind can come close to comprehending. God will use whom he wants and it will not be limited by our feeble doctrine that we at times profess to encompass God. I believe God loves people enough to reach them in ways we may not ever understand but who am I to to tell God what to do. He does what he wants. I have lived long enough to realize that God has not ever asked me what I thought about his plan.

I remember how stupid I felt one time when a lady student told me that she was going to China. To myself I thought that China has not been open in years. She graduated from college and God lef her to joing the U.S. Army. She weent to the Defense Language Institute and trained to speak and translate Chinese. When she finished the her schooling the door to China was open. God's perfect timing and the clean vessel he used when the door was open.


Who are we to instruct God?

No doubt God has his first choice but he will use whomever will carry out his first plan.

 

Turkeys are not the issue here; men and women are. God gives the reason: Adam was created first, then Eve. God has an order in headship. This does not give men a right to abuse that nor does it mean women are less intelligent.

It's not what I believe; it's what God's word says.

 

And no amount of twisting can change that.

 

What I meant to convey was that adding "in the assembly" and twisting "the man" into "churchmen" is not warranted in I Tim 2:12.

How do we understand Paul's statement: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."?
Hopefully we all agree that Paul is not commanding women to be always everywhere mute.

Some add "in church assembly" to the scripture, along with numerous other twistings until you get the caveat-ridden monstrosity of what I called in another thread the Baptist Board Revised Version of 1 Timothy 2:12:
"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, that is, any adult man, but especially an "elder", in the church setting, but to be in silence. However, she can teach a man Scripture, with her husband, outside of the assembly, as long as they call it "counseling". And she can teach men secular things outside of the assembly. Of course, she may sing her teaching in a church service, and that counts as silence."

The immediate context, however, is not talking about "in church" behavior, but behavior in general. Thus:

It appears that "the man" of verse 12 is not all males everywhere nor a church's "elders" but the woman's man. In the immediate context, Paul has just commended modest behavior in women. It appears Paul is illustrating that a woman should not lecture or subjugate her husband or be a loudmouth.

 

SaggyWoman,

And dont forget the "elect lady" and "her children" whom many believe to be the pastor in 2 John.


:godisgood:

 

Yes they are, but probably less so than they are in the current U. S. culture.

For the rest of the thread. The qualifications for Elders and Deacons are clearly laid out for us in scripture. Part of these qualifications regard leadership in the home, which the scriptures teach is the role of the Husband. The scriptures teach, as Marcia pointed out, that man is to be the head because he was created first, but also because Eve was decieved. Sorry if you don't like, take it up with the Author.

The Bible also teaches that the marrige of man and woman is a picture or type of the relationship between Christ and the Church. Agreed?

Christ is to lead the church. There is no reason or teaching that would ever place man above Christ in authority, therefore why would our culture want to move woman above man in the earthly authority?? Think about it.

Needless to say that I think the roles of Elder/pastor, Deacon, and Adult Sunday School is reserved for men. I do not feel there are exceptions for this because a man would not or could not do it. I do not see any cases where women have the authority over men in spiritual matters.

This does not mean women can not witness, comment, take part in, or pray. None of these actions put the women in authority.

It may be old fashioned, but it is taught without having to twist scripture IMHO

NO I am not a chauvuinist (SP). This does nothing but put the man in a great deal of responsibility, but that is for another thread.

 

Tim..
Very good post. Exactly why I was looking for a forum and why I stay. I am in the minority on most topics here, but I am learning much. Some things make me rethink, some make me more resolute, and others cause me to consider areas I have never thought of.

I love it. God is Good! :godisgood:

 

Oh, right. Then one could reasonably argue the Bible contradicts itself.

From NET Bible notes:

 

We ordain women at my Church......because we baptize girls.

 

I'm missing the connection between the two.

 

I think that he means "ordain" to "officially baptize young girls so a man doesn't have to touch her.......Just a wild guess.

Cheers,

Jim

 

He means every believer is to minister.

 

You got it !

 

Sorry for my density. It's been rather hectic here today.