Are some Churches getting out of hand?

It's the same reason one wouldn't use Spanish in an English speaking only community. It's addressing people where they are at just like you don't give a deep theological discussion to a group of brand new Christians. As I said, we've not done this in church because it would be completely ineffective to our congregation but I do think the youth have done it a time here or there. Oh wait! We DID play the first part of John Lennon's "Imagine" for a message to show the folly of the world - to show what the world is seeking for - NOT God.

It would show me that someone is thinking of me and interested in me. But absolutely the Gospel of Christ is enough but there are times we need to address a perceived need before we get to the full truth. Think of Jesus addressing the woman at the well. She was there for water and Jesus told her that He could give her water where she would never thirst. What a gimick, don't you think? Why not just tell her rather than tempting her with the water? Because He spoke of her need in a way that she would understand.

It could be but we don't have enough information to judge. It's kind of like seeing a married man out at lunch with another woman and gossips starting to talk - but they don't realize that it's his sister. We can't say that they are a liberal watered down church or if they are even doing a bait and switch. We just cannot judge without the facts.

I agree - but it's also important to know that God is concerned about things in our lives - even sex. He gave us some great words on the topic and understanding them is really important. I appreciate the honest teaching on the topic rather than the old straight laced discussions that I've had at other times.

 

Who says they're drawing in goats? Goats will not be saved. What about the future sheep of the shepherd?

So sex is an unbiblical fad?

I disagree.

 

Then you must have heard the messages in order to be able to say that it was an unbiblical message.

Can you show me proof of this? That they are entertaining goats. That this is an unbiblical fad? I think Scripture has a lot to say about sex. Don't we go by the whole of Scripture or do we pick and choose what's right to teach on and what's a fad?

Well, of course I would - because it is in the Bible. Jabez prayed it and God felt it important enough to be in Scripture. Why are you arguing about things that are in Scripture?

 

I didn't hear the message. What was unbiblical?

How do you know?

Show me where the sinner's prayer is in the Bible. Show me where wedding vows is in the Bible. Show me where potluck dinners are in the Bible. Show me where a pastor's secretary is in the Bible.

The "SDSC" was a challenge to the congregation - to the married couples. Is there anything bad about the challenge? Can you show me Biblically where it is a bad thing?

But I never read the book or the program. Our pastor taught on Jabez before the book and program came out. So were we wrong in doing it?

 

Neither is 7 days of sex. So?

This "yes" is in response to my question about the prayer of Jabez and our pastor teaching on it BEFORE the book and program came out. I asked "But I never read the book or the program. Our pastor taught on Jabez before the book and program came out. So were we wrong in doing it?"

So we were wrong in applying Scripture to our lives. Wow - that's amazing. I wonder what they teach in your church if they're not teach Scripture.

That's just sad.

 

So you're saying that those in their 20s and 30s have no chance to be saved? The goats are those who get to the end unsaved.

Now, your church doesn't have the unsaved come to the church? I'm not saying that we make our church for the unsaved but I'd certainly hope that your church presents the Gospel to the congregation for those who might not know Jesus Christ. To ignore the Gospel is wrong.

As for the racy things and such - do I think it's the best way to go? Probably not and I know our church would not do it. To say that a church has left Jesus Christ if they do it - I'd have to reserve my judgment. Some of these churches that have had these programs do not do them in the normal service but do it at an additional time. Yeah, some do it in the service but some do it outside.

Why do we feel that something that God has gifted us with - and something that He spoke about in Scripture - is off limit in the church? That's why we have so many issues with sex - no direct teaching in the church. Just "Wait until you're married" and that's it. There's a lot more to sex than just when you can do it. But I do agree that most probably the billboards and stuff are not the wisest move around. I'm the one who keeps up our church website and I've had to stop some things from going on the site because of my discernment for what we should put out there and what we should not. Billboards and cutesy website addys would not have gotten by me.

So bottom line, we can't just paint a wide stroke across all churches who do something, I think we knock down those who are doing a good job. We need to be discerning issues individually rather than just knocking down everyone who even slightly does something similar.

 

It's called "application". Scripture teaches us to not deny our spouse - and this is a small challenge to enjoy each other's company for a week straight. Statistics show basically (to term it for the public area of the board) the more you use it the more you want it and enjoy it. To deny each other is not healthy. It's a fun challenge that will most likely enhance a marriage. It's the same as one pastor telling us to outserve our spouse. It's not directly written in the Bible but what a great application to submit to one another and for spouses to love and respect one another.

If we did the prayer of Jabez before the book and program came out, then don't you think we learned about the prayer of Jabez straight from Scripture? We're doing Romans now - what program is that? I am not double minded (nor am I a man LOL) - I am speaking truth. Too bad you equate Scripture with a program.

Good for you - as do we. But sex is no more a silly unbiblical fad than obedience to authority, servanthood, baptism, personal study of the Word or avoiding sin.

 

Then make sure your church doesn't have a website, doesn't have a sign in front of the church, doesn't have a sound system or even electricity. Oh - add in an organ!

Haven't read Song of Solomon, have you??

Most anything we do is a program and not to be confused with the Bible. Do you have an order for your communion? Then it's a program. Do you do VBS? That's a program. Do you have a choir or music in your church? That's a program. If you toss out one then you must toss them all.

Do you work with 20s and 30s? We do. And trust me - many feel that God (if He exists) has nothing to say about sex. He has nothing to say about their lives at all. Knowing that God has a lot to say about this stuff is important so that they understand holiness and Godly relationships.

Please do not lump all churches together in "cool" and "relevant" because it's not true. I can paint with the best of them but I will judge according to works - not according to what one says on the internet with no firm facts behind them.