Are there any free will baptists here?

what is a 'free-will' baptist?

 

Is it true that...............

Is it true that they believe in the false doctrine of the lost of salvation?

 

Now there is a bias statement if I ever heard one.

My understanding is that Free-Will Baptist believe as Arminius did, i.e. One can forfeit their salvation, but not lose their salvation. There is a big difference.

 

Well loaded statements are par for the course around here.

 

Not sure I understand the difference. Please explain further.

 

Losing it means you can do something that will cause it to be taken away.

Forfeiting it means you decide you no longer desire to stay in that relationship and basically anul it by rejecting it.

or to that effect.

 

A free-will baptist is one who believes that sinners by nature have a will that is free to choose either to accept or to reject salvation. The opposite belief is that used by Martin Luther as the title of one of his books, "The Bondage of the Will." You can see an abridged version of this online at: http://www.reformedreader.org/bow.htm Although Luther wasn't a baptist, there have been, and still are, many baptists who agree with his teaching on the will of man not being free unless and until it is set free by Jesus Christ.

I hope this helps.

 

Well, I'll jump in where others are apparently afraid to tread. First of all I am NOT Arminian and I know that salvation is a one time thing good for all eternity. OSAS if you like.

But I also know God has given man the freedom to want, or to will. Not the freedom to do, please, as we often want things we are incapable of doing or getting. Nevertheless we can want. And that freedom is necessary for us to be able to respond to God.

Before salvation, our tendencies are toward sin, but our wills can force us to obey laws we would often rather not obey, whether the laws are of man or of God. The difference for the redeemed person is that the tendency is no longer toward sin but toward righteousness -- we want to please God. Our wills are still free, and we are still unable to do all we would like to do, but nevertheless our tendency is no longer toward sin and evil. As a redeemed person, born again in Christ, I still can slip into sin, but it is no longer home ground.

So yes, we are free to want no matter which side we are on. Since our hearts are different on the two sides, however, what we want is also reflected in that. Before being born again, the watershed is what you do with the truth you ARE aware of -- follow it or suppress it? Romans 1 explains that this is the deciding thing initially. If you do want the truth, even as a pagan, then the Father will lead you to the Son, who rejects none to come to Him. If you prefer the lie, that, also, is what you will finally get.

But you are free, even as a pagan, to choose which path to follow.

Does God know what your choice will be? Yes, He does. But that does not deny the freedom you have to make that choice, and either way, He will control your expression of that choice.

 

drfuss: I am not a Free-Will Baptist, but perhaps if you ask your questions, they or some one else who knows will respond.

 

Hi Tom,

I understand why you ask the question. My friends at my SBC church had never heard of forfeiting one's salvation. They were always told that all those who do not believe in OSAS, are Arminians and believe they can lose their salvation. It is noted that Arminius did not believe you could lose your salvation, but that you could forfeit it.

Forfeiting your salvation means a Christian can decide to stop trusting Christ and therefore forfeits his salvation. If you recieve a gift, keep it a while, and then give it back to the giver, you forfeit keeping the gift. If you recieve a gift, keep it a while, and then lose it, you don't have the gift anymore because you lost it.

Those who believe a Christian can lose his salvation usually believe the loss is due to not forgiving others or not asking forgiveness and being remorseful for your known sins. Those who believe a Christain can forfeit his salvation believe the forfeiting can only be due to stopping trusting Christ alone as savior.

It has been my experience that OSAS Christians have trouble appreciating other beliefs because they tend to group all other beliefs together.

Other beliefs are discussed and grouped on BB under Other Christian Denominations, Security of the Believer Beliefs thread (2nd page). The list of the various beliefs are given in both posts #65 and #119.

 

drfuss,
Thanks for filling in a blank in my education. As I read your definition of forfeiting salvation, it's the same as, or similar to, renouncing your faith, or recanting.

I take it this is a willful act, as opposed to doing so under duress or torture.

 

I'd like to expand the OP, please. What is the difference between the denomination known as Free-Will Baptist and the one called General Baptist?

 

Willful act, yes. Such as: Converting to Islam, deciding to trust in works rather than in Christ, etc.

Duress or torture? Don't know. That is a good question that I had not cosidered.

 

Although I am not affiliated with the FWBs, I am Arminian. I don't know much about the denomination's traditions; but if your questions regard Arminianism generally, I'll respond.

 

Didn't intend to put you on the spot. I understand the willful part.

I am not sure what I think about recanting under duress or torture. I'd like to hear other comments, but I don't want to hijack the thread, either.

 

Wikipedia says General Baptists and Free Will Baptist are quite similar.

Both hold to a general atonement and both hold the the possibility of apostasy. Both are self-described Arminians

The denomination called General Baptists are pretty strong in the South.

 

Tom,

I am not sure of the Free-Will Baptist's beliefs, but I do belong to a General Baptist church. When we started attending the General Baptist church the question of salvation was the biggest difference in doctrine for us as we had come from a IFB chruch that was very much OSAS. After some study I finally realized that if God was going to give me a gift then I was free to return that Gift.

General Baptists do believe that you can forfiet your salvation by turning away from God. This is a decision to give back the gift of salvation. You do not lose your salvation by a single sin, or by a series of sins unless you have chosen a life of sin rather than a life for God. Now I really can't imagine why anyone would want to return the gift of salvation, but how many people have we seen turn away and become backslidden. It is a short slippery slope from being back slidden to deciding that you don't need God anymore. That is why it is important that one keep their eyes on The Lord.

From the General Baptist Statement of Faith

Bill :godisgood:

 

I am a member at a Free Will Baptist Church. I teach a Sunday school lesson on my churches radio broadcast and the teen Sunday school class at church. FWB's, like Baptists, are very diverse. I do not believe in OSAS but I don't believe a handful of sins cuts you off either. I believe God's grace goes a long way.

 

I don't know about denominations with those titles, but the two terms "General Baptist" and "Free-will Baptist" refer to aspects of doctrine, the answers to the questions, "For whom did Jesus Christ die?" and "How are sinners saved?".

"General Baptists" believe that Christ died for everyone, as opposed to "Particular Baptists", who believe that He died for a particular group of people, whom He referred to as "My sheep".

"Free-will Baptists" believe that sinners by nature have a will which is free to accept or reject Christ and His gospel. The opposite belief, which goes under various names here in the UK, including "Grace Baptists" and "Reformed Baptists", is that by nature, a person's will is not free, but in bondage* to Satan, and needs to be "set free" by Christ.

* I haven't had time to download or listen to it but I've just come across a site with a Church History lecture on Luther's book, "The Bondage of the Will", which may be of interest. You can find it at: http://www.churchaudio.org.uk/refc/Lectures For Download.htm

Does that help at all?