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Are we "little christs"?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by MalkyEL, Apr 5, 2004.

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  1. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    The pastor of pastors once said:

    1 Corinthians 8
    13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


    1 Corinthians 9
    18 What is my reward then? [Verily] that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
    19 For though I be free from all [men], yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
    20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
    21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
    22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all [men], that I might by all means save some.
    23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with [you].
    24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
     
    #61 Spirit and Truth, Apr 6, 2004
  2. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Sharpsword,

    "Apology accepted Charles. But don't call me a Pharisee, legalistic, am hatefilled and unloving
    or similar again. It is ungodly and counter productive.

    Use of the Word of God in analysis is required, not something to be ridiculed."

    Only if you RIGHTLY DIVIDE the Word dearest Sharpsword!

    I shall refrain from such terms of jest if you'll not accuse me of being a new-ager or a hater of the KJB (unGodly and counterproductive).

    I've already given my 2 cents worth on the Greek thing.

    And like I said - I want to be like Christ - I want people to see Christ in me! As Martin Luther said I want to be a "little Christ". Unless you can show me a specific scripture that says, "calleth not thou thyselves little Christs; for such is blasphemy" then you can only offer YOUR OPINION on the phrase. And you have done that! With that I shall lay down my sword and go study!

    P.S. MalkyEL - No I don't trust Luther over God - I just think he had a little more discernment about God's word than you guys do! No offense! :D
     
    #62 Charles Meadows, Apr 6, 2004
  3. MalkyEL

    MalkyEL Guest

    Pastor Larry wrote:
    Man alive ... all I know is I have never heard anyone say the kind of things you guys are saying here. I am not sure what kind of crowd you are running in but I have to say I think you guys are way over thinking this ... It is certainly not a term I use, but there is definitely nothing sinister in it ... Imitation of Christ (which is what "little Christ" typically means) is the way that we show we love him ... But hey ... whatever works for you guys ...

    MalkyElahh:
    I tried looking up imitate in the KJV - it does not exist, nor does imitator, imitation, or imitating. I could not find that we are "to be like Christ" either. What I did find is that we are to have the mind of Christ, which means our mind is to be transformed and renewed. We are also to be examples of Christ, friends of His, servants to Him, to follow Him, to look unto Him.

    Could someone please tell me how these add up to being "little christs"? Thanx ;)

    1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

    Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

    Jhn 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will [my] Father honour.

    Jhn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

    2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient,

    Jam 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

    1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

    Phl 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

    1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us
    an example, that ye should follow his steps:

    Hebrews 12
    1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
    2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
     
    #63 MalkyEL, Apr 6, 2004
  4. MalkyEL

    MalkyEL Guest

    Pastor Larry wrote:
    Unless you can show me a specific scripture that says, "calleth not thou thyselves little Christs; for such is blasphemy" then you can only offer YOUR OPINION on the phrase. And you have done that! With that I shall lay down my sword and go study!


    MalkyElahh:
    Luk 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

    Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
     
    #64 MalkyEL, Apr 6, 2004
  5. sharpSword

    sharpSword Guest

    Pastor Larry "I have heard the term "little Christ" many many times and have never heard anyone suggest what you suggest. Your background has caused you to bring a faulty meaning to the word as we use it. If the charismatics and the like use it in their way, that does not mean that our use of it is invalid. "

    Precisely what would my "background" be? You have NEVER dialogued with me nor asked what I believe or why, nor what my background is. Your statement is presumptuous and inappropriate.

    I have never in my life been involved as a charismatic, pentecostal, catholic or other wise! It is common knowledge that the term little christs is synonymous with the little gods heresy. And many people embrace it..in fact it is a Biblical concept....

    Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
    4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
    5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    The onus was on you and Charles to provide the Scriptural foundation for the term "little christs." Not opinion. Not tradition of men. Not some sermon notes. Scripture!

    The onus was on Charles to provide the Greek definition with the words to show the legitimacy of his proclaimed statement that Christian or Christianos means 'little Christs.' Because he said it was translated in that way, and there is no source that I can find. I requested him to prove and provide A published source.

    He nor you have provided either. Again.

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
    22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

    Charles "if you'll not accuse me of being a new-ager or a hater of the KJB"

    I never accused. I asked about the term. You continue to make remarks which imply characteristics to me which do not apply, particularly with the KJB.

    When I apply Scripture Charles. Rest assured. I have a very specific reason for it's use. I don't make casual application.

    Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

    2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
    6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
    7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.
     
    #65 sharpSword, Apr 6, 2004
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Here are just a few of many verses we could list that say something about us being like Christ. Every single one of these verses either commands imitation of Christ, or puts it in a positive light.

    Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children;

    1 Thessalonians 1:6 You also became imitators of us and of the Lord,

    1 Corinthians 11:1 Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.

    1 John 3:2 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

    Matthew 10:23-25 3 "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. 24 "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. 25 "It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master.

    John 13:15-16 5 "For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you. 16 "Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him.

    Matthew 20:26-28 26 "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, 27 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

    It is interesting that you say we are "to follow him." If you look back at what I have said, I said that is exactly what "be a little Christ" means in typical Baptist usage.

    Pastor Larry didn't write that. But your cited verses don't answer it anyway.

    As for Sharpsword:

    My statement is neither presumptuous nor inappropriate. You overreacted rather than controlling your emotions. "Your background" is obviously different than mine since you see something sinister in this phrase. In my background, the term "little Christ" means a follower of Christ. In your background, it means something different. Relax and don't fly off the handle.

    It is not common knowledge. I am telling you that I have been in church for more than 30 years missing fewer Sundays than you can count on one hand, when to a CHristian school, a Christian high school, a Christian college, and Seminary. I have read widely from all perspectives of Christianity both ancient and modern. I have talked to Charismatics and read some of their writings. I have never heard that. They may use it that way ... but it is not common knowledge. Remember that your mind doesn't get to determine what is common.

    Second, the term is not synonymous with the littel gods heresy. Some may use it that way, but that doesn't mean it is synonymous.

    Why isn't the onus on you to say that we can't use it in an appropriate way? Proving something is not said is usually a bad way to argue. You can't find scriptural foundation for the use of Trinity, and many other theological terms that you accept. You need to realize that "little Christs" is a phrase that apparently means different things to different people. In your background, it means one thing. In other people's backgrounds it means something else.

    I already addressed this. It is irrrelevant from my perspective because I am not using the Greek to defend it or deny it. It is term that recognizes a valid biblical principle that we are to be like Christ, or in the words of Rom 8, we are to be conformed to his image.

    You are making a mountian out of a mole hill. If you don't like the term, then don't use it. How easy is that? I don't use the term. I haven't in years. But if I were to, I would explain it biblically. Don't get bent out of shape at others.
     
    #66 Pastor Larry, Apr 7, 2004
  7. sharpSword

    sharpSword Guest

    Well, Larry. The issue was not whether the good 'ol boys use a phrase and think it is acceptable. The issue is whether the concept of being 'little Christs' is who we are in Christ, and a Scriptural concept.

    As proven Scripturally, that is a different phrase than being like Christ. And you in your background obviously have a skewed view of how other Baptists call it, as indicated by other posters.

    "It is term that recognizes a valid biblical principle that we are to be like Christ, or in the words of Rom 8, we are to be conformed to his image. "

    The term is recognised more so by use as a new age and heretical meaning. We are called to abstain from all appearance of evil. Being like Christ is not the same as being a smaller version of Christ which is what the term means.

    Maybe there's a new Charismatic Baptist denomination, is that it? :D


    No one is bent out of shape. The onus in a debate is to prove your point Scripturally or factually with Biblical precepts supporting. The claim was made that Christian or Christiano means little christs...which was presented as factual and therefore also a Biblical precept.

    Prove it.
     
    #67 sharpSword, Apr 7, 2004
  8. Glory Bound

    Glory Bound New Member

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    According to your arguments, I'd suspect that you would have more heartburn with the term "being like Christ", since obviously that's something none of us can truly be. After all, wouldn't that be blasphemy - claiming to be identical (like) Christ? Horrors!!!!! :eek:

    For those of us who don't travel in New Age circles, the term "Little Christs" basically means the same as being "Christ-like", or like Christ. With the word "little" we are recognizing that we aren't "exactly" like Christ. Or another way to look at it is as being the children of Christ - his children - little Christs. Trying to grow up to be as much like Christ as we can. We realize that we will never be totally like Christ, but we strive toward that goal.

    Has anyone else noticed how hard it is to try to explain your thoughts here ... if you don't get every word exactly right then it's an avalanche of corrections!

    As Larry said, let's don't over-analyze this phrase. If you understand it in the way it's intended, within the context, then you'll know what is meant. If used in proper context, then understand it that way. If used improperly, then understand that.
     
    #68 Glory Bound, Apr 7, 2004
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I hate to be obvious, but where did you prove "scripturally" that a "non-scriptural" term means anything?? That is not even a valid argument. Scripture does not say anything about the term "little Christ." Therefore, whatever you "proved about it" is not "scriptural" in nature.

    I have seen no widespread evidence that it is new age. I have seen and presented evidence that it is not heretical. We are to abstain from all kinds of evil, but you have yet to show that apart from your background, this phrase is heretical.

    I am sure there are charismatic Baptists and they probably aren't new. But that doesn't really have much to do with this conversation.

    If you are going to prove something biblically, then "little Christ" cannot be a part of it since "little Christ" has meaning only apart from Scripture. Some people may use the term "little Christ" in the manner you have suggested. I haven't seen it but I won't deny it. But you must realize that most people that I know do not use it that way. The term itself means nothing apart from what the author intends it to mean.
     
    #69 Pastor Larry, Apr 7, 2004
  10. sharpSword

    sharpSword Guest

    Perhaps you need to reread what I posted there, Glory Bound.

    sharpSword "The Term "Little Christs" implies having the Divinity of Christ, which is why it is used in conjuction with the 'little gods' heresy. Therefore, the information has been provided in this thread which shows it to be used by the New age and heretics. We're to abstain from all appearance of evil.

    Whereas the term reflection of, conformed to the image of, having the mind of Christ, being like Christ in attitude and actions and being a follower or disciple of Christ, which is the definition of Christian, states Biblical truths."


    I don't get heartburn from words. I get it from people not proving their beliefs to the word of God. I get it from people who say the Greek defines Christian or Christianos as "little Christs"..And then refuse to prove it.

    The phrase 'little Christs' is an incorrect wording and concept. It is used by heretics who declare it as a Scriptural truth to mean little gods or little christs.

    You can define it anyway you choose, but a word study of the terms "little Christs' shows it infers a smaller but identical version of Christ. And that is false doctrine.
     
    #70 sharpSword, Apr 7, 2004
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