Are we paying attention to Scripture in our political statements?

No, what you think it says and what I know it says are two different things.

We have had to dismiss some in the past. The details of which are between our Church, the way ward member(s) and God. It never is an easy thing to discipline. A lot of hurt and heart ache for that member is never healed until that one comes back for reconciliation.

 

I agree that Mr. Obama's position on abortion is terrible. But this is not the only issue. There are areas where Mr. McCain is clearly out of touch with the kingdom values presented in the Scriptures.

 

And just what areas are those? Are there any that result in the death of innocent life?

 

Chapter and verse that clearly details McCain's sense of out of touchiness with "kingdom values", please.

 

(What has happened to this board or is it just my computer? The page has expanded and the print is large.)
Just what are the values which government has in common with the kingdom values. Jesus, himself said, his kingdom is not of this world. Why do we think we can make it so?

Governments exist for the sake of rule and power over others. Whatever serves their purpose and expediency is what they will do. Like corporations exist for a profit: If it is to their advantage to alter research findings to hide their liabilities in drug or product testing so they can make a profit....they do so.
The kingdom of God is within us, and it is through our witness that the world may seek him.

So what do I do with the kingdom values vs the values of government? While God gives me opportunity to do so, I try to choose those leaders who will not interfer with the spreading of the gospel or free speech. I try to choose those leaders who will not bridal the church into conformity with the world. I try to choose those leaders who aspire to maintain the social and civil character, freedom, and morality of people which uphold the family unit and present the least threat or control upon it. I try to choose leaders who will respect my right to work for and own property and to use it for my good. I try to elect leaders which are similar in values to my own..... in that I will not expect from others nor from government that which I would be unwilling to give...... and if 'giving' is a free choice, then it is only free as long as my possessions are mine to give and not to be taken to give to another. Unfortunately a carnal teaching of the gospel must be being perpetuated upon the churches through the directions within seminaries and infiltrations of socialism, and in the literature, and through the mass propaganda of the media for the concept of kingdom values and government values to be blended into such a way that people are confused when they wish to be sincere.

 

It is possible to vote for a candidate who disagrees you on an issue. There are many pro-choice Republicans (another link) and pro-life Democrats.

In your mind, the issue of pro-life and pro-choice is too important to vote for the party that disagrees with you. In other people's mind, it isn't.

 

Thanks for your honest answers. I consider your position to be a clear misuse of scripture and an excellent example of how politics has sadly become the new Magisterium as an authority in many parts of Christianity.

 

It is so frustrating to think that one can not understand that the stand on life is not just an issue, it is for the protection of the human soul and life where by I stand.

In other times in history there were those that felt that the lives that they destroyed were not human but were less than human. Most resent were the Nazi Party of Germany. Along came a man promising the suffering German people that his ideals for Germany would settle them as a world power for 1000 years. They fell for his mesmerizing rhetoric and they suffered even more as many fell in war as the furnaces and gas chambers did away with the sub human Jew.

Then even in our own history when the black man was thought of as simple property and not a full man.

In both cases each human travesty could have been halted by a simple vote. However both societies would not listen to the cries of the Christians to put a stop to the senseless slaughter of innocent life. Then came the blood bath of judgment. Germany paid dearly and America with all it's war dead combined does not come close to the American dead of the War between the States.

Oh, the travesty that is coming for the blood of 45,000,000 (million) spilled sense 1973 and today 1000 Americans have been tortured and murdered for the sake of the sins of father and mother.

Yeah, go ahead and vote for your "issue" I will vote for life.

 

I am not an American so I am not a Democrat and won't be voting on any issues. I am also pro-life.

I agree with you that voting is important and can save lives. Some argue that is the very reason they want to vote Democrat, because it will save the lives of American military servicemen as well as civilians in other countries overseas. They also do not see voting Republican as having done anything to save lives in the abortion debate. I'm sure you disagree with those views but you are incorrect if you think that people who disagree with you do not view their vote as one that can save lives and souls. They simply disagree with you regarding which party and candidate is best able to do this.

 

Supporting any candidate that supports abortion is always wrong, no matter what insidious reasoning they can come up with.

 

Why pray tell are you then even a part of this debate? Pro-life but yet advocate for abortionist. Not an American but involved in American political discussions.

I think I'm getting motion sickness.

 

Why can't non-Americans be involved in the discussions? I happen to like politics and this election has definitely taken the world by storm, not just the US.

I do not advocate for any abortionists. I like Obama who is pro-choice but has gone on record several times as someone who seeks to reduce abortions. I hope he is true to his word in this regard but we know how politicians can be with regard to that sort of thing. But I do not advocate for him.

My contributions to political threads have been to correct misinformation of either party or candidate. There were simply many more threads where misinformation was spread about Obama and democrats than there were about McCain and republicans.

Finally, I am a Christian before I am any political position I hold. I want to see my baptist brothers and sisters disagree with each other in politics or any other issue in a biblical manner in line with Paul's imploring in Ephesians 4 so that all men will know that we are from Christ.

 

Wow, you got a beam in the eye thing going here. It is bad enough to claim one can detect a regenerated person, but to attribute the stench coming from either the Democratic or Republican Party, as one or the other more or less closer to a Holy God, is ridiculous, to be kind.

It is one thing to vote for the lesser of two evils, it is quite another to attach God to either.

 

That is so disingenuous, so much so that it is utterly laughable. I never said such and you and those that have read my statements know it to be so. Nor have I (even if I could) attached God to either party.

 

How noble of you. :thumbs:

 

Supporting candidates that support abortion in no way indicates that we are Christians. And abortion is not a political position. But framing it in that way I am sure soothes the minds of those who vex their godly souls by lending support to such causes.

 

the scripture being ignored appears to be by the obama supporters/worshippers on this board, who are voting to murder a live born baby, who are voting for homosexuality is not immoral. Ignoring scripture with a heart hardned toward God and HIs word. Not caring about babies being murdered outside the womb, not caring about homosexuality, not caring what God says. Approvong evil, calling evil good, and good evil.
Thats the scripture being ignored.

 

no, it tells a completely different story, with a loss of christian testimony when they support murdering a baby.

 

One thing to consider when critiquing American Politics is that these politicians will say anything that will give them a vote, John McCain included. It is their record that one should search that speaks the loudest of what their future leadership will take. Obama's record on abortion is not one of limitations but even includes that of infanticide. As he has supported legislation that prohibits the care for an infant that has survived an abortion by birth. That is out and out baby killing by anybody's standard.

NRL Update: Monday, August 18, 2008

Obama Cover-up on Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Continues to Unravel After Sen. Obama Says NRLC is "Lying"

On the other hand John McCain's record has indeed been that of abortion limitation.

 

If we can't stop abortions, we can at least have limitations, but obama does not believe in limitations, and has promised to allow partial birth abortions, his prefered method of murdering a baby is to stab the baby in the back of the head with scissors.
Hard to believe christians are going to vote to allow this, the only way anyone can is a total disregard of scripture, and God. even if you think it's alright to abort a baby if the mothers life is in danger, her life is guaranteed in more danger with partial birth abortion.