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Are we really to Judge a person's salvation?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Nov 20, 2004.

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  1. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    I think we need to start a prayer group for Michelle.I know I have been praying for her. First that she would gain wisdom and a loving heart.
     
    #41 Plain Old Bill, Nov 20, 2004
  2. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    #42 gb93433, Nov 20, 2004
  3. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Attention all posters

    We will refrain from "smart eleck" remarks from and to each other and stick strickly to the subject of the threads!

    Blackbird
    Moderator
     
    #43 blackbird, Nov 20, 2004
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I agree with Michelle! These men JUDGED this woman based on outward action. But who is the JUDGE? GOD ALONE.

    I am a recovering Pharisee because of the way I looked at life for many years before understanding Grace. I'd have been there in that crowd, stone in hand.

    But thank God my blind eyes were open to see that GOD ALONE is the judge of the heart. I see the outward sin. I pick up stones. But GOD IS THE JUDGE, not ol' Pharisee Bob.
     
    #44 Dr. Bob, Nov 20, 2004
  5. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    No.

    We are NOT to "judge another's salvation". If a person acts in a manner that leads us to believe he/she is lost - well, they may very well be!

    This is not the same as looking at another who professes Christ as savior and saying, "look he/she believes this or that - he/she cannot be saved!"

    This is what the Pharisees did. "Oh Lord thank you that I'm not like him!"

    It's unfortunate that many have been brought up under such misguided legalism. I would not question THEIR salvation (but I'm sure they would MINE) - but I don't think God will be well pleased with their life's works.

    Oh Lord, when did we ever see YOU hungry? We saw those people who were different then we are and of course we "separated from them". But we never would have treated YOU that way!

    Wood. Hay. Stubble.

    Sad. :(
     
    #45 Charles Meadows, Nov 20, 2004
  6. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    I certainly have no problems with this. I know she is concerned about her husband too, so include him in your prayers, please. I am sure she would appreciate that, too. [​IMG]

    With Michelle's faith, I think she has a lot of potential.

    We are like spaceships headed towards the moon. She (and all of us) could use some course correction, but eventually the moon's gravity will win in the end. (Whether she agrees that about us or not.) [​IMG]
     
    #46 Phillip, Nov 20, 2004
  7. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Great post, Dr. Bob.

    Thank you for that wisdom and the wisdom gb93433 shared with us.
     
    #47 Phillip, Nov 20, 2004
  8. GrannyGumbo

    GrannyGumbo <img src ="/Granny.gif">

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    Sister Michelle has much wisdom for one so young in the Faith...I only wish I had her brains(& guts)! And I can certainly assure you, her heart is one of the most loving and generous ones I've seen in a long time! She's tried to be a friend to all of you & has taken a lot of abuse; I've seen threads started with her in mind just to goad her on & that's not nice.
     
    #48 GrannyGumbo, Nov 20, 2004
  9. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Granny it is not my intention to harm her feelings or make her feel bad in any way. I have several things with which I agree with her on.I also have seen her in very heated debates. She is very convinced of her position.However a person can be sincerely wrong.I am not judging her rightness or wrongness although I strongly disagree with her on two things.I won't dwell on that, nor will I argue with her, since I know her position on those issues and her immovability.
    So in response rather than be mean or nasty about it or encourage others to be mean and nasty, I will pray for her and ask others to do so also.I believe prayingfor her will help those who pray for her as well as her.
     
    #49 Plain Old Bill, Nov 20, 2004
  10. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Then perhaps we can have debates in a more loving atmosphere.
     
    #50 Plain Old Bill, Nov 20, 2004
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I don't think so, Bill! The nature of "debate" rather than "discussion/fellowship" of the other Forums here, is to take opposite sides. And be logical.

    We have the "opposite sides" down really good. :rolleyes:
     
    #51 Dr. Bob, Nov 21, 2004
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Posted by DHK.
    Thank you. This is the exact point. As far as I know I will see everyone who has posted in this thread in heaven, when all of our differences will be put aside.

    I also agree with the Graham record. I am no supporter of President Bush. But I do not know their hearts.
     
    #52 NaasPreacher (C4K), Nov 21, 2004
  13. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Opposite sides and debate is good.Venemous personal attacks are not. We need to debate without being personally mean spirited.
     
    #53 Plain Old Bill, Nov 21, 2004
  14. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Although I have been mean spirited at times I have also learned this is unfruitful.So I have decided to take a diferrent tact.I will choose my words more carefully.I will check my spirit before I make an entry.I can address or attack a debate without being insulting,mean or accusing.

    I'm a little train, " I think I can, I think I can".
     
    #54 Plain Old Bill, Nov 21, 2004
  15. cindig

    cindig New Member

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    I know this is off topic, but since it was mentioned about not supporting the Pres. It doesn't look like these evangelicals are the ones that helped put Bush into office. I am thankful for the ones that did.
     
    #55 cindig, Nov 21, 2004
  16. here now

    here now Member

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    Beautifully put Trotter. [​IMG]

    Sincerely,

    Here Now
     
    #56 here now, Nov 21, 2004
  17. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Not really off-topic. We are discussing judgement of a person's salvation.

    I don't think I have the ability to judge the President's salvation. I have heard his testimony. If he sins, don't we all? You cannot expect anybody to be perfect and it is hard enough having to deal with the people President Bush has to deal with.

    I supported him because of his stance on issues such as abortion, conservative judges and other such things. Now, will he make mistakes? He certainly ain't Jesus. :eek:

    So, we should not expect him to be perfect. When selecting a president you have to weigh the one who will support the most righteous agenda. It will not all be to everybody's liking.

    Whether he is actually saved or not is between President Bush and God.

    Off topic, but to get a point across, this country is founded on "freedom of religion". This means a politician MUST be tolerant to other religions. He does not have to agree with them nor should he. He has his own religion. But, in America, thank goodness, we are allowed to worship the way we want to, not the way any particular person wants us too. Otherwise, we might all be carrying KJV's to church every Sunday whether we want to or not.

    Placing YOUR morals on someone else is dangerous because you (and I) are prone to error. God is not. That's the difference.

    Salvation judgement is another issue entirely. ;)
     
    #57 Phillip, Nov 21, 2004
  18. here now

    here now Member

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    DHK

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    Member # 152

    posted November 20, 2004 05:52 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Michelle,
    I agree with you on many points, but you have overstated your case and have gone too far. Only God knows the heart. That is why it is put plainly:
    "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it?

    God also says: "The Lord knows them that are His," not Michelle, not DHK, not Dr. Bob, not C4K, not any one of us. The Lord knows them that are His. We need to understand that point very clearly.

    I agree with DHK on the above statement.

    Michelle-
    I agree with alot of your Biblical understandings. I have been following many of the threads that you have been posting on. But I think that it is absolutely wrong to say whether another person is saved. We can make decisions on having personal relationships with specific people based on how they lead their lives. But when it comes to judging whether they are saved or not it's always best to be silent.

    Sincerely,

    Here Now
     
    #58 here now, Nov 21, 2004
  19. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Here Now, great post.

    If we start judging a person based on level of sin, we start forgetting about "grace".

    We start moving away from "grace" back to "legalism". Works is a result of grace, but if we go overboard on judging "works" then it is easy to start getting the two backwards and then we become like the Pharisees.

    God does not and will not weigh our works or "fruit" on a scale to determine our salvation, why should we?

    All He will do is see if our name is written in the Book of Life.

    That bad fruit will be covered with the blood of Jesus.....THANK GOD! ;)
     
    #59 Phillip, Nov 21, 2004
  20. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    Grace is unmerited favor.

    No one can "earn" their salvation. The price must be paid. God paid that price in full through the finished work of Jesus Christ. Each and every person who partakes of this salvation does so through the unmerited favor that God has so freely bestowed.

    To attempt to judge another's salvation is to declare that you know better than God.

    As far as being unqualified for salvation, one sin is all that is needed to make one guilty and deserving of death and hell. A white lie is as damning as murder in the eyes of God. There are no big sins and little sins, just SIN. Yet, God accepts even the most jaded sinner who comes to Him in faith.

    How can we judge this kind of salvation? It is solely the work of a sovereign God. In our eyes, no man, woman, boy, or girl can be deserving of salvation, yet God grants it freely.

    Every born-again Christian is a recipient of this grace. And every born-again Christian will, at one time or another, fail to live up to the Christian ideal. Can we then point and declare that God made a mistake with this one? Can we shake our heads and condemn one who has fallen into a fleshly state?

    To repeat myself, we are not God. It is God who knows who is and who is not His own. Some profess but do not possess. True, the lack of spiritual fruit can sometimes be seen as proof of non-belief...but we are all guilty of fruitless periods, are we not?

    Let God be the judge. Let us be the light in this dark world.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
    #60 Trotter, Nov 21, 2004
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