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Are you a Pauper Pastor?

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by Katarina Von Bora, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

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    John Piper on Pastors who have too much and even embezzle from their own church.
     
  2. annsni

    annsni Administrator
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    We earn 60% of the median income in our community. We are blessed to not be in debt but we have no more savings, our house is in poor condition and needs work and my children are now eligible for free college in NY (thank goodness). But we are blessed in more than finances. It does hurt though to see what we used to earn when my hubby was an engineer before he became a pastor. I'd love to be able to get back there so we could breathe a bit more financially.
     
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  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    So how you going to get back there?
     
  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    they could take over Joel Osteens church!:Biggrin
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Run dance recitals perhaps?
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The appetite grows with the eating.
     
  7. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    My favorite fiction book is Les Miserables
    Book 1 of the story is called "Just a Man"
    The story of the village priest who collects every penny he is owed and keeps account of where everything is spent
    Yet he lives a life of poverty - everything he can give, he passes on to his flock

    We are called to be stewards of what God gives us.
    Rich or poor, we are accountable.

    Rob
     
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  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Thus we are also accountable to our own selves (and to our families).....to feed, cloth, educate, house, etc.
     
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  9. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    It just all depends on how you look at it. I used to be friends with a pastor of a Mega Church who was compensated at about 5% of the Church gross income. I was also friends with s pastor of a church of about 50 members who was compensated about 80% of the church income. Which created more hardship on their church financially?
     
  10. annsni

    annsni Administrator
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    Unless hubby quits the ministry and goes back to doing computer engineering, it isn't going to happen. But that is OK. God is good and He has shown us how He will care for us even when money is tight. :)
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    What, via State handouts and Welfare? Look at Pastor Durant. He is a Pastor who both works a secular job and ministers to his Christian community. He also is a sportsman who provides food through deer hunting. Lastly, he has his his grandson to raise and educate...now there is a committed Christian.
     
  12. annsni

    annsni Administrator
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    Nope. The only "state" thing we are taking is the free college if you go to a state school and you earn under $100,000 a year. My son WANTS to go to state school so anyway so he's going to take advantage of this.

    Instead God has done some amazing things through friends and circumstances. For example, friends were traveling to Brazil for their son's wedding the next day and that afternoon their freezer broke. They gave us ALL of their freezer food and told us that they wanted no money for it and they didn't want us to just hold it and give it back to them. We are still eating from that stash! Then our HELOC expired and it seems there was a $550 fee with the county to close out the mortgage. The next bill we got had that bill paid in full - and yet nothing was withdrawn from our account. We called the bank about it (don't need a sudden withdrawal when we aren't expecting it) and they said that the bank covered that for us. ??????? Praise God!! Then a friend gave us a regifted gift card he had received as a gift and it turns out it had $300 on it! The friend said he knew that and just wanted to bless us for Pastor Appreciation Month (he is a hospital administrator so certainly not lacking for anything - and he is a very dear friend). Lastly, my daughter's car is at 110,000 miles and she brought it in for an oil change and asked the guy at the desk what sorts of things should she think about doing on the car now that her mileage is that high (she travels 100 miles a day for work). He said that timing belts usually have to be replaced around that time and that they do the water pump at the same time since it is all pulled apart (I think that is what the part was). Anyway, she said to go ahead and schedule it because she needs a reliable car with all of her commuting. When we got home from the shop, the desk guy called us and said, "Wait - I forgot you had a 2008 Civic - that has a timing CHAIN and not a timing belt! You're pretty much never going to have to replace that." Finally, I've been helping a friend with her horse that was very ill, she did major surgery on him and yet he was still really ill. I would go over daily or every other day for months to help care for him and would go at the drop of a hat. One day she gave me a thank you note with a few hundred dollars cash in it. I told her no, I couldn't take it but she burst into tears and said that there was no way she could have made it through all of that without me and she NEEDED me to take it. So I did. Oh and she also gets cast off food for her animals that is not always bad - a LOT of it is good and she often has me come pick through it. My last haul was 20 lbs. of sweet potatoes, 10 lbs. of onions and 25 lbs. mushrooms (none of these things the animals eat). THAT is the kind of blessing I'm talking about. Big and small things that have really awed us and shown us that God's got us covered. No, it doesn't meet all of our needs but just maybe some of our "needs" are really not needed. :)

    Yep - And I've spent the last 27 years raising my kids (still have a few more years to go), 19 of them homeschooling them (and getting some pretty awesome kids out of it), being a pastor's wife and all that entails, working part time to bring in money (and might end up looking for full time work soon) and helping people with their horses' care (some volunteer and some paid for). Hubby MAY be able to pick up some consulting work but it is hard when he's working 60+ hour weeks and trying to be a dad and husband to the family that God blessed him with (because that is our primary ministry field). So it isn't like we don't work and we ever expect hand-outs. That is never what is going on over here so I don't know why you could even consider that it is.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Because my brother was in that same situation a few years ago which required him to leave being a pastor and move back to Jersey... they had driven themselves into such financial destitution that we really had to provide the family a home etc. Clearly you are not in that position, thank God but you should think about it. I would not want youse guys to get in a situation you can’t get out of.
     
  14. annsni

    annsni Administrator
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    No worries. Fortunately we are debt free, house is paid for, all cars are paid for and we do have some retirement set aside (that we have dipped into a bit but we are still OK). It is just that we certainly can't live like many around us and our house needs some help and we're slowly doing the things as we can afford it. It was funny because I had a "discussion" with someone who lives here who was complaining about this free NY college thing and he said that NO one in our community can even benefit from it. I said that of course there are MANY people in our community who could use it - who earn under $100,000 a year. He was like, "I'd like to meet ANYONE in our community who makes under $100,000 but I won't because they don't exist." LOL - Well, Hello There! Yeah - we haven't made $100,000 since .....I think it was 2006? And right now we make significantly less than that. But we don't spend to go into debt, we don't try to outdo the neighbors, we shop at stores that are less expensive than others (I LOVE the Dollar Tree and Aldi) and we are happy and blessed. I don't need the Tesla or Masarati that are down the block and I don't have the housekeeper that many around here have but I have my family, I have my Lord and I have great joy in life. SO we struggle, we are "paupers" but we are content.
     
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  15. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Depends. 5% of $5,000,000 is $250,000 (and yes, there are churches that gross that much and more). 80% of $70,000 is $56,000. That last number comes from a pastor I know who serves in a major metropolitan area in a small church that needs a full-time pastor. While the percentage is higher, that's what it takes to maintain a full-time pastor (and $56K in a major city doesn't go very far with a family of four). So, really, it's all relative.
     
  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    That's my point, its all relative.
     
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