Arkansas Couple Welcomes 17th Child

[Bro. Curtis]

I'm lazy !!!!?!?!?????

Yer the one throwing these accusations out, and refusing to back them up.

And I'm not lableing this family as anything, 'cept blessed.

Another cut & run poster, I guess. Good bye to you, as well.

 

[Joe]

What about those selfish, greedy, self-serving adults who are so self-focused that they have no children or limit God's will by selfishly choosing to only have one or two.

It cuts both ways folks.

Neither attitude of criticism is right.

Limiting God's will equals having one or two children only? You think that is a small amount of children to have? I think most people in our area average having about two children. Sometimes three, sometimes one but there aren't many large families here.

I've never heard of this, but I understand your point here. Thanks

 

[StefanM]

As far as homeschooling is concerned. We question a mother of 17 homeschooling her children for God. Yet we will send our children to a public school classroom and let them be in a class twice that size with a teacher who will never pray for them and will not teach them from the word of God. Can anyone explain that ?

The difference is in basic instructional time. Even with a class of 30+, the public school teacher doesn't have to teach on 10+ different grade levels. If it were a situation of 17 children of the same age, I'd say the homeschool situation would have few drawbacks.

With these 17, it would not be unexpected for the mother to have teach calculus, trigonometry, algebra, geometry, pre-algebra, and arithmetic all within one day. Repeat with world history, American history, government, economics, etc. Repeat with English literature, American Literature, World Literature, etc. Repeat with all of the other subjects in school.

 

[Joe]

I'm lazy !!!!?!?!?????

Yer the one throwing these accusations out, and refusing to back them up.

And I'm not lableing this family as anything, 'cept blessed.

Another cut & run poster, I guess. Good bye to you, as well.

Oh fine. My father in law is a retired social worker for Child Protective Services. We were Foster parents so also have some experience in this area.
I asked him what he thought of a family of 17 people (yes, I know now they are 19 but it was 17 at the time of the article) living in a 2200 sq ft house with two bathrooms. I pointed to where the Duggan's stated (in an article) that there is almost always a line to get into a bathroom. I asked if this could be a form of child abuse, he said yes.

I asked under what grounds. He said it's HIS interpretation according to the child abuse laws in california, but it has to do with plumbing. A family of 17 sharing bathrooms, with so many young children and tots, well if any child is forced to hold it in for too long then it could cause permanant damage to their bodies. My father in law is 86 years old.
He said it would depend upon whether the child felt humiliated by holding it in or any accidents that occured. He said we all expect at times to need to wait for a restroom but when the waiting is happening more than not, and it is young tots and children, that could be a problem. Combine this with living in a small house (yes it's small when 17 people are living in it) and that would be taken under consideration. The social workers take many factors under consideration.
Yes, under the child abuse laws, they could be breaking the law according to my father in law, ex social worker.
This is just one issue of the many I have stated concerning this couple. Now they are in a large house with multiple bathrooms so it makes no difference anyways.

Additional info: Social workers respond to calls. The caller can identify themselves or remain anonymous. A social worker takes the report, then hands it to another worker who then investigates it. Nothing happens without a report. In the end, the worker may decide to just give recommendations, it doesn't mean the kids are taken away.
As we became foster parents, I was told I was abusing my own son by walking around the house naked. Usually it was from a room to a room, but I would sometimes talk along the way.
My wife was doing the same thing. Then the social worker called it " A form of child abuse" I thought we were going to be declined as foster parents, but we weren't . We understood and ceased our actions, started wearing clothes. So I could have been a criminal I suppose though I don't recall that being against the law offhand.

Hope my attempt makes some sense even if we don't agree.

 

[4boys4joys]

Instructional Time

The difference is in basic instructional time. Even with a class of 30+, the public school teacher doesn't have to teach on 10+ different grade levels. If it were a situation of 17 children of the same age, I'd say the homeschool situation would have few drawbacks.

With these 17, it would not be unexpected for the mother to have teach calculus, trigonometry, algebra, geometry, pre-algebra, and arithmetic all within one day. Repeat with world history, American history, government, economics, etc. Repeat with English literature, American Literature, World Literature, etc. Repeat with all of the other subjects in school.

Stephanos I- I understand what you are saying and I think your point is valid. It is the responsisbility of the parent to make sure that each child is getting an education. I have seen all sides to this coin. Some homeschool families with five or more than have very educated children and some who are not very good at homeschooling at all.I have also seen public school kids that are well educated due to the involvement of the parent and those who are not, due to the parents not being involved.
If she is able to teach her children at the same level or better than her local public school, then as an American she certainly has the right to. I advise anyone who wants to homeschool to prayerfully decide the best spiritual and educational environment for their children. All parents are accountable for the education of any child regardless of family size or belief. Also don't forget our missionaries who have no English speaking school. They have to homeschool multiple grades. Is this not God's will to share the gospel because there is no public school.

 

[abcgrad94]

I'd rather be one of their kids than Brad & Angelina's. Or Madonna's. Or Britney's.

I agree! While I still have some reservations about this particular family, I know far too many parents who don't take enough responsibility for their kids.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Oh fine. My father in law is a retired social worker for Child Protective Services. We were Foster parents so also have some experience in this area.

I have worn many hats. One of my hats, was a crisis intervention counselor at a juvinile delinquent lock-up. I worked direct care, on the line, for 9 years. I have a lot of experience with kids, and social workers.

I asked him what he thought of a family of 17 people (yes, I know now they are 19 but it was 17 at the time of the article) living in a 2200 sq ft house with two bathrooms. I pointed to where the Duggan's stated (in an article) that there is almost always a line to get into a bathroom. I asked if this could be a form of child abuse, he said yes.

I asked under what grounds. He said it's HIS interpretation according to the child abuse laws in california, but it has to do with plumbing. A family of 17 sharing bathrooms, with so many young children and tots, well if any child is forced to hold it in for too long then it could cause permanant damage to their bodies. My father in law is 86 years old.

This is complete speculation, imagination, inventing a problem that apparently does not exist. Kids who get ill, due to either refusal, or inability to use the bathroom, are in constant pain, and need care. That certainly is not evident, here.

He said it would depend upon whether the child felt humiliated by holding it in or any accidents that occured. He said we all expect at times to need to wait for a restroom but when the waiting is happening more than not, and it is young tots and children, that could be a problem. Combine this with living in a small house (yes it's small when 17 people are living in it) and that would be taken under consideration. The social workers take many factors under consideration.

Pure speculation.

Yes, under the child abuse laws, they could be breaking the law according to my father in law, ex social worker.
This is just one issue of the many I have stated concerning this couple. Now they are in a large house with multiple bathrooms so it makes no difference anyways.

They look like perfectly healthy kids. I'm sure if anybody, especially social workers, had ANYTHING like proof, those kids would be outta there. I have to believe there are worms trying to make this happen, anyways. Can't have that many home-schooled kids out there, now.

The speculation is not fair, you are judging something you have absolutely no idea of.

Additional info: Social workers respond to calls. The caller can identify themselves or remain anonymous. A social worker takes the report, then hands it to another worker who then investigates it. Nothing happens without a report. In the end, the worker may decide to just give recommendations, it doesn't mean the kids are taken away.
As we became foster parents, I was told I was abusing my own son by walking around the house naked. Usually it was from a room to a room, but I would sometimes talk along the way.
My wife was doing the same thing. Then the social worker called it " A form of child abuse" I thought we were going to be declined as foster parents, but we weren't . We understood and ceased our actions, started wearing clothes. So I could have been a criminal I suppose though I don't recall that being against the law offhand.

Hope my attempt makes some sense even if we don't agree.

Man. I don't know what to say. I'm in agreement with the social worker, this time, and that's probably a first.
Yeah, I think it's a REALLY bad idea to walk naked around foster children. But that's another thread, I suppose.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I agree! While I still have some reservations about this particular family, I know far too many parents who don't take enough responsibility for their kids.

That's no reason to cast any ill will towards these folks.

 

[abcgrad94]

Huh? Sorry, I guess my post wasn't clear. I don't have ill will towards the Duggers. I do have some concerns, but right now those are based on my opinions of what I gleaned from their website. What I was saying in my post is that I'd rather have them for parents than the likes of Madonna or other Hollywood types that don't teach their kids anything about the Lord. Not to mention the other totally unfit parents I've met who only have 1 or 2 children.

 

[tinytim]

Could you imagine being Madonna's kid?!!!

Talk about having an embarrassing mom!

 

[Joe]

I have worn many hats. One of my hats, was a crisis intervention counselor at a juvinile delinquent lock-up. I worked direct care, on the line, for 9 years. I have a lot of experience with kids, and social workers.


This is complete speculation, imagination, inventing a problem that apparently does not exist. Kids who get ill, due to either refusal, or inability to use the bathroom, are in constant pain, and need care. That certainly is not evident, here.Pure speculation.

They look like perfectly healthy kids. I'm sure if anybody, especially social workers, had ANYTHING like proof, those kids would be outta there. I have to believe there are worms trying to make this happen, anyways. Can't have that many home-schooled kids out there, now.

The speculation is not fair, you are judging something you have absolutely no idea of.


Man. I don't know what to say. I'm in agreement with the social worker, this time, and that's probably a first.
Yeah, I think it's a REALLY bad idea to walk naked around foster children. But that's another thread, I suppose.

If you read my post, it is worded "As we became foster parents..." We were still in foster parent classes at the time so we were not naked around any foster kids. We were naked somewhat around our biological son who is now a teenager, we regret it now.

At last, something we can agree on. I screwed up

Joe

 

[TaterTot]

Now that would make an interesting thread lol

 

[Bro. Curtis]

If I misunderstood, I sure do apologize.

I grew up with 6 brothers & sisters, and we saw each other naked a whole bunch in the early years, it can't be helped. Over time, with guidance and supervision, that comes to an end. I can't remember ever seeing my parents in the buff. (WHEW !!!!!!!!!!)

In Massachusetts, foster parents are not given much informantion on the kids they take in, because of privacy concerns in such a temporary placement. A lot of foster kids have been horribly abused, and I think the above mentioned action would trigger a negative reaction.

 

[Joe]

If I misunderstood, I sure do apologize.

I grew up with 6 brothers & sisters, and we saw each other naked a whole bunch in the early years, it can't be helped. Over time, with guidance and supervision, that comes to an end. I can't remember ever seeing my parents in the buff. (WHEW !!!!!!!!!!)

In Massachusetts, foster parents are not given much informantion on the kids they take in, because of privacy concerns in such a temporary placement. A lot of foster kids have been horribly abused, and I think the above mentioned action would trigger a negative reaction.

I agree 100%.

 

[Joe]

Now that would make an interesting thread lol

I think it would suddenly disappear, like the marijuana thread in the Theology forum I posted to last night.

 

[CheeseCrackerKidd]

Joe,

Apparently it was moved to the men's forum or taken off altogether because of sexual content. Sexual content is forbidden in the public forums.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Praise the Lord that this family doesn't really care what the world (and that includes posters on the BB) thinks of them and they are following God's will for themselves and their children.

Y'all can argue back and forth all you want. It will not affect this family, so your arguments are in vain.

The Gideons, when passing out Bibles at school, always have other adults present.

They stand on the corners...so do the crossing guards who work for the police department (I am one of them).

They notify the school in advance what day they will be there and there are always teachers out watching.

There are also multitudes of cars with parents in them to pick up kids.

The Gideons are never alone with a child, at least not in my town.

 

[CheeseCrackerKidd]

With all due respect, I do not believe they are seeking God's will as to the number of children.

The news article about the birth of the seventeenth child quotes Michelle as saying that they were already talking about have 'more' only a half hour after the delivery of the seventeenth girl.

I do not believe they are seeking God's will. It looks like they are trying to see how many children they can produce.

Yes, children are an heritage of the Lord. And yes, in Bible times as much as eighty-eight were born to one man. But to those children were eighteen mothers leaving only an average of 5 to 6 children being born to each mother.

Such huge families as seventeen children to one mother could pose great health risks to that mother down the road.

 

[Bro. Williams]

With all due respect, I do not believe they are seeking God's will as to the number of children.

The news article about the birth of the seventeenth child quotes Michelle as saying that they were already talking about have 'more' only a half hour after the delivery of the seventeenth girl.

I do not believe they are seeking God's will. It looks like they are trying to see how many children they can produce.

Yes, children are an heritage of the Lord. And yes, in Bible times as much as eighty-eight were born to one man. But to those children were eighteen mothers leaving only an average of 5 to 6 children being born to each mother.

Such huge families as seventeen children to one mother could pose great health risks to that mother down the road.

The truth of the matter is, we don't know God's will for the Duggers. Just because a lady says they are talking about having more only a half hour from the delviery doesn't mean that they haven't been praying and discussin it for the nine months of the pregnancy or longer.

As we know, there are no limitations mentioned in the Bible as to what God's will for number of children are. I know some Christians that go the other direction and claim that if you are not having children you are out of the will of God.

Here is the fact. YOU don't know the will of God for the Duggers any more than they know the will of God for you.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Here is the fact. YOU don't know the will of God for the Duggers any more than they know the will of God for you.

:thumbs:

(and I have to type something to satisfy the software)