Arkansas Couple Welcomes 17th Child

[Ex-Fundy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070803/ap_on_fe_st/17_kids

Psalms 127:3-5
3 Lo, children are a heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

Now there's a happy man

I hate to sound like a cynic, but...

I looked at those pictures.... there's a song that comes to mind... and I know this is going to sound horrible, but it's by marilyn manson, called "The Beautiful people"... why? there's just something awful "glossy" about those photos, like they're putting on a front or posing... or as they used to say in the 1970's, "Plastic", you know? I could be wrong, but just seems so fake to me. Of course, I could be totally wrong.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

One potential issue...

Once the kids hit puberty and have no contact with outsiders, it could result in some bad things going on.

Aren't you the one who doesn't want Gideons handing out Bibles at the schools because one of them might be a pedophile?

Do you have no faith in God? Do you pray a hedge of protection around your children every day?

Do you mistrust everyone?

To me, your attitude is more dangerous than raising a family to themselves.

In the old days, farmers often lived miles from their nearest neighbor and they homeschooled. Turned out some pretty good kids too.

The best place to raise kids is in the country...

 

[GLipscomb48]

EF,

According to one forum from when they had their 14th child, they were Southern Baptists.

I have read their home page, and several pages from the past and there is no mention of a church at all... other than the kids being taught the Bible at home.

 

[Joe]

Has it been established that they are NOT in a local church? I thought they were.

It troubles me to hear of these people being demonized all for having and supporting a family.

They are involved in a home church of about 100 members, according to the article. I called them mentally unstable, I will add abusive too, but I wouldn't label them a demon They are exploiting their children, treating them like a herd of puppies. There aren't even enough adults to supervise the kids who are babysitting/ supervising the kids. What a mess

Here are a few quotes
"They decided to let God determine the size of their family" Michelle Duggar

This is manipulative. When she miscarried, it wasn't god's decision for them not to have a child but HER actions of taking birth control pills. She quit using them. and it was then that "they decided to let god determine the size of their family" Hellloooo ...do they not know what a c*ndom is?? I guess God happened to forget instruct her on this :BangHead:

Regarding homeschooling, Michelle says she home schools all of her kids but this is untrue. She forces her children to home-school each other. She also forces them to babysit one another from dawn to dusk :tear: I don't even work from dawn to dusk

Quotes-

"The older child gets to become a teacher. And it seems like you learn so much more when you're the teacher than when you're just the student."
"From dawn to dusk, each tiny tot has an older buddy who helps them with just about everything"

It get's worse...

"That may be hard to do in the modest house of only 2,400 square feet. There's almost always a line at one of the two bathrooms, but soon that will change"
Two bathrooms for 17 people?? :tear: ALWAYS a line? This is not the old days

"The girls – and their 39-year-old mother – don skirts or dresses (no pants) and white socks. The boys – and their father – dress most days in the same colored polo shirts and slacks or jeans, with black socks. The sameness of their attire helps with laundry and organization" "The girls embrace a similar hairstyle, long and pulled back with a clip, flowing to near their waistlines. The boys' hair is closely cropped, often cemented into position with gel"
It takes too much time to learn each child's individual preference regarding Dress attire and hair so they are given no choice in the matter of appearance. And there really isn't a choice in looking good since it's a crap shoot. The kids cut one another's hair too.

Since these parents refuse to have the time to devote to each child individually, it's like they have no parents. Or none that care enough about them to ensure they have time for them

Instead, they continue to practice to "get more blessings from god"

This is NOT the old days, kids are not treated this way now. It is common sense kids need to be with other kids and adults. They need to be a part of a church, not a home church. They are not running a farm

 

[Joe]

Aren't you the one who doesn't want Gideons handing out Bibles at the schools because one of them might be a pedophile?

Do you have no faith in God? Do you pray a hedge of protection around your children every day?

Do you mistrust everyone?

To me, your attitude is more dangerous than raising a family to themselves.

In the old days, farmers often lived miles from their nearest neighbor and they homeschooled. Turned out some pretty good kids too.

The best place to raise kids is in the country...

This isn't fair Sue. I read MP's posts and he never said he didn't want bibles handed out at schools. He just didn't want Gideons handing them out without other adults present, preferabily, himself. Just in case a pedophille could use this as a ploy to lure a child.
I don't think he mistrusts everyone, maybe he is just more aware of things than you are.

I bet in the old days the farmers did turn out good kids, maybe you were one of them?

 

[Joe]

I hate to sound like a cynic, but...

I looked at those pictures.... there's a song that comes to mind... and I know this is going to sound horrible, but it's by marilyn manson, called "The Beautiful people"... why? there's just something awful "glossy" about those photos, like they're putting on a front or posing... or as they used to say in the 1970's, "Plastic", you know? I could be wrong, but just seems so fake to me. Of course, I could be totally wrong.

This couple has done 75 radio interviews, numerous tv interviews, not to mention the magazine articles. I wonder if they live off of this $$ though it's the kids who earned it?
I can see why their appearance could play into that "glossy" photo feeling, making it look like they are putting on a front. It smells of exploitation. Here are a few quotes from the articles-

"The girls – and their 39-year-old mother – don skirts or dresses (no pants) and white socks. The boys – and their father – dress most days in the same colored polo shirts and slacks or jeans, with black socks. The sameness of their attire helps with laundry and organization" "The girls embrace a similar hairstyle, long and pulled back with a clip, flowing to near their waistlines. The boys' hair is closely cropped, often cemented into position with gel"

The children don't have much of a say regarding their own appearance.

 

[abcgrad94]

I visited this family's website and it looked and kind of sounded cultish to me. I am very concerned that the older children have to help rear the younger ones. That's just not fair. It's the parents job to care for their own kids, not force their other kids to dress them and feed them and homeschool them.

There have been many good people who came from large families. The Wesley brothers are just a few, and I'm sure their mother was a very godly woman. I'm not knocking big families in general, but I am worried that these folks are craving attention or power or something from all this. It doesn't look like the kids are allowed to have much say in their own identity, and that can be very destructive to them later.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

This isn't fair Sue. I read MP's posts and he never said he didn't want bibles handed out at schools. He just didn't want Gideons handing them out without other adults present, preferabily, himself. Just in case a pedophille could use this as a ploy to lure a child.

Thanks, Joe. I am glad that someone actually read what I said, not what they want to believe I said.

 

[StefanM]

This couple has done 75 radio interviews, numerous tv interviews, not to mention the magazine articles. I wonder if they live off of this $$ though it's the kids who earned it?

He is in real estate, owning several rental properties.

 

[Rufus_1611]

I hate to sound like a cynic, but...

I looked at those pictures.... there's a song that comes to mind... and I know this is going to sound horrible, but it's by marilyn manson, called "The Beautiful people"... why? there's just something awful "glossy" about those photos, like they're putting on a front or posing... or as they used to say in the 1970's, "Plastic", you know? I could be wrong, but just seems so fake to me. Of course, I could be totally wrong.

You hate to sound like a cynic? It seems to me you dwell on sounding like a cynic, especially when it comes to being cynical about fundamentalist Christians. The problem you may be experiencing is that you've never seen a contemporary picture where all the ladies have long hair and wear modest skirts/dresses and all the young men have clean cut short hair. None of them are demonstrating some lazy posture and there's no signs of piercings where they shouldn't be, no colored hair and no signs of tattoos. It's no surprise that Marilyn Manson would sing against folks like this and no surprise that you would use a Manson quote to make your anti fundamentalist points.

 

[Rufus_1611]

This isn't fair Sue. I read MP's posts and he never said he didn't want bibles handed out at schools. He just didn't want Gideons handing them out without other adults present, preferabily, himself. Just in case a pedophille could use this as a ploy to lure a child.
I don't think he mistrusts everyone, maybe he is just more aware of things than you are.

I bet in the old days the farmers did turn out good kids, maybe you were one of them?

This is one of the reasons the Gideons go in groups. They weren't preying on these children as MP has alleged. Their very "crime" was handing out Bibles on a public sidewalk in the light of day. So this pedophile angle doesn't wash. Once upon a time Christians supported brethren passing out Bibles to the lost. Now they rail against them and rail against large Christian families such as the one described in this thread.

 

[Rufus_1611]

...This is manipulative. When she miscarried, it wasn't god's decision for them not to have a child but HER actions of taking birth control pills. She quit using them. and it was then that "they decided to let god determine the size of their family" Hellloooo ...do they not know what a c*ndom is?? I guess God happened to forget instruct her on this :BangHead: ...

God doesn't "forget" things and the fact that He omitted instruction on this in His book, should cause you to question your position on this matter.

This man has a lot of arrows and he is operating in a far more Biblical fashion then his detractors on this board. It is not this family that will be ashamed for their full quiver. However, some of the comments from their "brethren" may be cause for shame.

"As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate. - Psalm 127:4-5​

 

[Magnetic Poles]

This is one of the reasons the Gideons go in groups. They weren't preying on these children as MP has alleged. Their very "crime" was handing out Bibles on a public sidewalk in the light of day. So this pedophile angle doesn't wash. Once upon a time Christians supported brethren passing out Bibles to the lost. Now they rail against them and rail against large Christian families such as the one described in this thread.

Typical Rufus slander. I never alleged THESE people were pedophiles. Read the posts. Then I'll be awaiting your apology, which of course will not be forthcoming.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Typical Rufus slander. I never alleged THESE people were pedophiles. Read the posts. Then I'll be awaiting your apology, which of course will not be forthcoming.

No, you didn't. You alleged that their potential to be pedophiles is enough to desire to keep them away from children. What you accused them of was "accosting" children and "preying" on them. Regardless, there's enough of your opposition to Christians in this thread to deal with without mixing it with the Gideon thread. Your suggestion that this family has the potential of engaging in incest was a real winner. :thumbs:

One more thing...your allegation of slander is libelous as I have uttered not a single word against you.

 

[Joe]

God doesn't "forget" things and the fact that He omitted instruction on this in His book, should cause you to question your position on this matter "

Rufus you don't know my position on *this matter*, as my wording was a description of what Michelle believes according to information in the article. Obviously God doesn't forget.

Quote by Rufus -"This man has a lot of arrows and he is operating in a far more Biblical fashion then his detractors on this board"
He has dictators on this board? What in the world are you talking about?


MP did not single out the Gideons as potential pedophiles. I am blessed 16 made accusations to MP bringing the Gideons into this thread from another thread. They were proven incorrect when I posted with my interpretation of what I read in MP's post. MP then verified it as accurate and thanked me for not deliberately reading something he did not say. Sometimes there can also be misunderstandings but when a poster verifies his beliefs when a misunderstanding occurs, we surely need to let the misunderstanding go, and debate on the proper foundational beliefs to debate properly.


Let me explain. The Gideons are strangers to children just like anyone else. All strangers can be potential pedophiles. MP didn't say he wanted to keep children away from the Gideons, but without an adult or himself present, there could be potential danger if one of them is not a Gideon. Or if they are a Gideon, they could be a pedophile on the lurk.
Whether the safety risk is high or low, it's a different opinion held by different people depending upon their personal experiences and beliefs. There is no right and wrong. Some are more cautious than others. It clearly doesn't mean the more cautious parents are not christians or are attacking christianity, that is just crazy.

Please let it go.

 

[Rufus_1611]

God doesn't "forget" things and the fact that He omitted instruction on this in His book, should cause you to question your position on this matter.

Rufus you don't know my position on *this matter*, as my wording was a description of what Michelle believes according to the article.

Your stated position was that God forgot to instruct her about c*ndoms. My position is He didn't forget because they are not Biblical.

Quote "This man has a lot of arrows and he is operating in a far more Biblical fashion then his detractors on this board"

He has dictators on this board? What in the world are you talking about?

Do you believe I said "dictators"? What in the world are you talking about?

 

[Bro. Williams]

There are numerous churches of different denominations throughout Springdale, where the Duggar's live.

There are over 119 churches in my small town, and numerous others within 30 minutes. We were not able to find one Bible believing Baptist church that was straight. Okay there was one that was a brider church, but that was still an issue, along with fermented wine during communion.

From what I have seen and read, they only home church. Again, that is dangerous. I see no reason why they cannot find a local church.

How, Biblically is that dangerous?

As to missionaries abroad, they don't just sit at home and teach one another, they go out visiting other communities and share the gospel; inviting others into their home for Bible lessons. They also take the Bible to others. At least that is what our missionaries do.

Do the Dugger's? Do we know?

Both homeschooling and homechurching in one family could lead to a cult just as bad as the Phelps family church.

Come now, that is quite a statement. What proof do you have for that?

 

[Bro. Williams]

I would like to clarify a statement. The Duggan family WAS living temporarily in a 2200 sq ft house a few years ago.
The Bible doesn't cover all issues, as you know. I suggest you re-read my posts and visit the links I provided below. You may find them on the Official Duggan Family website


I am with GL here... This family situation is resembling a cult. These kids need to be involved in a local church


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/121805dntexbigfamily.2bb5559.html


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/04/earlyshow/contributors/melindamurphy/main615586.shtml

All of that said is what? Your opinion. You are falsey accusing the brethren without cause and Bible to back up that accusation. Do you know anything about the Dugger's personally? Or the ministry they might be called to? Or the calling God has placed on their life and family? I trow not.

 

[GLipscomb48]

Come now, that is quite a statement. What proof do you have for that?

Jim Bob once said in an interview that he wan't to put all of his kids on his own property where they would be with him always; he makes them wear the same clothes; he homeschools; he home churches them.

Sounds more and more like the making of a cult the more of the interviews you see or read.

They say they are Southern Baptist. There are at least 3 Southern Baptist Churches in Springdale. Rules out the need for a home church, IMO.

 

[Bro. Williams]

Rufus: I dare say, you are a blessing on these boards. So often I come away wondering what people are thinking, only to realize they apparently aren't. I don't know if it lack of Bible study, solid preaching, or being conformed to this world, but it is astonishing some of the worldly themese and thoughts that are poured into this board from professing Christians. Thanks you brother, keep up the fight, amen to the posts.