Arkansas Couple Welcomes 17th Child

[Joe]

Highlight the text you specifically want to quote and then hit the quote button or type in the correct code example given on the quote that works.

Thanks, hopefully this will work now.

edited to say it works!

 

[Rufus_1611]

So now that you know what they are, maybe you can work on eliminating them from your reportoire of hate.

You're upside down again. I love this family and I suspect that they love each other (Christian love, not the kind you suspect them of or suspect them of having the potential of) and I pray that God continues to bless them richly. What say you?

 

[Joe]

Evidence?

It would be much easier to prove that forcing children to grow up in a home with cable is a form of child abuse, but no one dares spew venom in that direction.

I DO dare spew venom in that direction. I do not have cable TV, nor even regular tv. I took down the antenna years ago. We watch only movies in which I review at Dr. Dobsons site of plugged in.

[/QUOTE] Methinks your statement is a falsehood without evidence or proof... better yet, meknows.[/QUOTE]

Just because the bible doesn't cover that particular issue, doesn't mean isolating your children to a great degree is not a form of child abuse. The bible doesn't specify this either way to my knowledge which means common sense dictates.

 

[Bro. Williams]

Just because the bible doesn't cover that particular issue, doesn't mean isolating your children to a great degree is not a form of child abuse. The bible doesn't specify this either way to my knowledge which means common sense dictates.

Common sense to most means, what the world would do.

Tell me, how can common sense, per se, dicatate that separation from the world is a sin (i.e., child abuse)?

 

[Bro. Williams]

I DO dare spew venom in that direction. I do not have cable TV, nor even regular tv. I took down the antenna years ago. We watch only movies in which I review at Dr. Dobsons site of plugged in.

And for that I am thankful and say Praise the Lord. :thumbs: I am bit more "old fashioned" on the subject and think most all movies are trash, but I will give a brother ups on this one.

 

[Joe]

Common sense to most means, what the world would do.

Tell me, how can common sense, per se, dicatate that separation from the world is a sin (i.e., child abuse)?

To ensure I understand your question, I will re-write it in simpler terms.

Tell me how can common sense dictate that seperation from child abuse is a sin?

You can't be asking me this, but you have certainly surprised me before. I wonder if I am going to regret this again

Child abuse is sin, period. I won't offer you a biblical quote offhand, as I have none. Isolating a child from playing with other children, developing social and mental skills is a form of child abuse.

Separation from the world is commanded to a certain degree "Do not be uneqally yoked" but even Jesus witnessed to the Lost and ate with sinners. Of course we must be a part of the world, but it's best to be around other christians as much as possible so we don't conform to the world. Iron sharpens iron as long as people are not name calling and defensive.
It doesn't mean to separate completely from non- believers. In fact, if we are married to one, we are to obey them (That's another subject of course). Hope this helps

 

[Bro. Williams]

To ensure I understand your question, I will re-write it in simpler terms.

Tell me how can common sense dictate that seperation from child abuse is a sin?

Surely you can understand fifth grade English, for that is what many suppose I compose sentences in. It is of my opinion that you restated the question to put your slant on it.

You can't be asking me this, but you have certainly surprised me before. I wonder if I am going to regret this again

You are right, I can't be asking that. I am suprising though, the Bible says we are to be a peculiar people. And yes, you will likely regret this.

Child abuse is sin, period. I won't offer you a biblical quote offhand, as I have none. Isolating a child from playing with other children, developing social and mental skills is a form of child abuse.

Yes, child abuse is sin, we agree. These children are not isolated from other children, they have 16 other children to play with everyday, what a blessing that would be. You say "developing social and mental skills is a form of child abuse". Surely you are mistaken, that is a natural process.

Separation from the world is commanded to a certain degree "Do not be uneqally yoked" but even Jesus witnessed to the Lost and ate with sinners.

You don't know that they don't witness and I am sure they eat out as well.

Of course we must be a part of the world, but it's best to be around other christians as much as possible so we don't conform to the world. Iron sharpens iron as long as people are not name calling and defensive.

Agreed, but also, a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump... we don't know what is close, leaven or iron. It is likely a little iron a lot of leaven if the local churches are what most are like.

It doesn't mean to separate completely from non- believers. In fact, if we are married to one, we are to obey them (That's another subject of course). Hope this helps

Let us not get into the man obeying the woman debate... not here, not again...

 

[Joe]

deleted post

 

[Rufus_1611]

...Child abuse is sin, period. I won't offer you a biblical quote offhand, as I have none. Isolating a child from playing with other children, developing social and mental skills is a form of child abuse.
...

Did you not establish that they home church with 100 members and isn't it possible that of those 100 members they might have a child or two for the Duggar family to play with? Are you really bent out of shape because they don't let their children play with other children or are you bent because they don't have their children socializing with worldly children? Which would be spiritual child abuse; separating their children from the world or integrating them with it?

 

[Joe]

Let's leave this alone Bro Williams, it is clearly not edifying any longer.

I will read your post tomorrow Rufus, it's my bedtime

 

[Rufus_1611]

Let's leave this alone Bro Williams, it is clearly not edifying any longer.

I will read your post tomorrow Rufus, it's my bedtime

You can leave mine alone as well if you'd like. I'd prefer we simply congratulate this family on another blessing from God and move on.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I will also point out that forcing children to live in that type of familial isolation is itself a form of child abuse.

Unbelievable charge! "Child abuse?" To love, protect and care for your children?

Ridiculous claim with absolutely no biblical or societal basis.

What has this poor family done to deserve scorn and accusations of mental instability and child abuse?

I see a family which loves each other and honours the Lord. What more could you ask for?

 

[Joe]

Unbelievable charge! "Child abuse?" To love, protect and care for your children? I see a family which loves each other and honours the Lord. What more could you ask for?

If they were loving and protecting their children, there would be no suspicion of child abuse.

If you haven't done so already, really read the links, including the Duggar's official website. It's only fair to the Duggars. Try to really understand their situation, and be fair giving kudos when needed. They do not watch tv, or rarely do, and I am in total agreement with it.
They ARE NOT loving and protecting their children, as this is impossible with only one full time parent and another parent who isn't completely full time for 16 kids in a 24 hr day. It's impossible.
They are forcing their young children to not only rear up the other children, but to educate them as well. Children rearing children, and being their teacher. AND this situation lacks enough adults to supervise the children. Children rearing children is clearly abusive when there isn't enough parents to supervise this. Not to mention it is THEIR job to be parents and the KIDS job to be kids

Quote "Ridiculous claim with absolutely no biblical or societal basis"

No, the bible doesn't address it from what I understand. Children reared other children many years ago, but didn't play teacher regarding education from what I know in the OT or NT. These kids have more responsibility than even the children back then.

Quote-"What has this poor family done to deserve scorn and accusations of mental instability and child abuse?"

1. They have participated in over 70 radio interviews, magazine articles, etc...Time not spent with the children, again. I am not convinced his job is fully supporting them, or that they are distributing this $$ to the children, who rightfully earned it. All Michelle did was get herself knocked up multiple times and relinquish her parental responsibilities to her kids.
2. a. 2 bathrooms for 17 people (not enough proper plumbling, and it is THIS issue that CPS could have used to take the children away. My father in law read this post, he is a retired social worker for CPS. This is what he explained to me). He also didn't like a 2200 sq ft home for 17 people.
b. Forcing children to homeschool one another could also be a problem with CPS but it is in his humble opinion that IF the kids are caught up, he would let that one go. Maybe that is because he would be forced to let it go, who knows...
3. Two adults (and remember, there is not always two adults present) to home school 14 plus kids is not an appropriate ratio according to our friend, who is a teacher for our local county home school program. I asked her when she came over yesterday.
15. And finally, it resembles (it only resembles... as I haven't been to their home church) a religious cult due to the fact that the children are SO isolated. The kids are isolated in all forms of the meaning, and 100 people in a home church usually doesn't produce a high ratio of children to play with. One 10 year old may find one to two friends out of the four kids his or her age who happen to attend this home church.
16. Forcing the kids wear their hair a certain way, and dress a certain way, all looking similar is just sad. They should not look similar, they have individual identities. This isn't conducive to the bible. It is just easier on the parent's laundry tasks, and how could they recall which kids prefers what clothing and hair style. They couldn't. How sad.

I don't see Parents that love their kids, I see a mental instability. I see instability in the parental roles. This doesn't mean the kids won't turn out as faithful christians.

I would like this family find a local church, one that doesn't hold every viewpoint of their parents belief system. I would like the children to be valued, this includes honoring their hair and clothing preferences. I would like the children to be children, not play adult roles from dawn to dusk in which they are not prepared for. Nor have the education for (being a teacher). I would not want to hand pick everyone who feels the same as I do, then congregate in a home church situation. That is usually how home churches operate. Similar mind get together, talk about the reasons why the local congregations are lacking and do not meet their needs.
Parents must be parents, kids must be kids.

Joe

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Absolutely and totally your opinions.

So, am I a child abuser because the older of my six children helped educate and take care of the younger ones? My daughter changed her little brothers nappies!! My older son excelled in math in homechool and helped the younger ones. Sometimes my wife and I actually went out and left the older children in charge of the younger!! At times we went out to eat with other adults and we had our children sit at another table where the older kids helped the young ones order!!! All our kids learned to cook and helped prepare meals!!!! My a home children still have to fix their own lunches sometimes and even have to hoover the floor!!!!

How have my older children survived this abuse to become solid members of society. Will my poor abused younger children make it to childhood.

At what point in your obviously expert opinion does a family become abusive sheerly by the number of children they have?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Put me down as one who believes this is a very good thing. 17 future missionaries, submissive wives, godly husbands, and people spreading the word. Some of the slurs against this family are just hateful.

Praise God for this family.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Put me down as one who believes this is a very good thing. 17 future missionaries, submissive wives, godly husbands, and people spreading the word. Some of the slurs against this family are just hateful.

Praise God for this family.

I have such a difficult time seeing the other side Curtis, that I almost think they must be stirring the pot. It certainly worked with me .

 

[Scarlett O.]

Put me down as one who believes this is a very good thing. 17 future missionaries, submissive wives, godly husbands, and people spreading the word. Some of the slurs against this family are just hateful.

Praise God for this family.

??

I also have no qualms with this family other than isolationism, but am wondering why you feel that this family would make these girls be in subjection to a man more than any other family....say an immediate family of only two children?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I don't believe that's what I said, at all.


With Godly parents, all children have the ability & knowledge necessary to submit to God's will. This family is just producing them on a greater scale than most.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Then I am just not understanding your first post. My error. :flower:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I wish I could articulate it better, for you. 'Cuz I consider you a friend, and it sure would bug me a lot if you were mad at me.