Arminian or Calvinistic?

I'm glad I'm not alone in not considering myself to be Arminian or Calvinistic.

 

This is a debate that John Wesley and George Whitfield could not settle and I am convinced it will never be settled.
Th controversy reminds me of the words of the woman when ask How many women on PMS does it take to change a light bulb she replied "What's it matter"!!!

 

I believe there is great imporatnce on whether or not someone is "Calvinist" or "Arminian" for one very obvious reason: the question of salvation. I am refering to the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints. I think our views on this is vital, because to know the nature of salvation is to know the true character of our Father and Lord Jesus Christ. This is deeply entwined with the doctrine of Total depraviity and being born again.
I certainly do not belittle those of a different opinion, but I do pray they find out this:

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irreocable" (Romans 11:29)

Christ did not die in vain: what He did for us is of eternal and infinite significance. One we are born of God, we are His forever.


"Oh come, let us worship and bow down; Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.
For He is our God,
And we ARE the people of His pasture,
And the Sheep of His hand." (Psalm 95:6,7)
Keep the faith.

 

2. Have you always believed this? YES

The church(s) I attend as a child tended to be, at least slightly, Calvinistic. The Calvinism/Aminianism debate always seemed to be part of the message and debate from the pulpit and in general discussion. I always found it to be intriguing, though; at the time I was nowhere near a good enough bible student to form a scriptural opinion. So, I guess I just tended to place myself somewhere in between (or neither).

1. What describes your basic view? NEITHER

Years later, when I finally came around to purposely studying the Bible, I figured I would be able to definitively decide for myself, with the Lord’s help, the ‘correct’ position. I read the Bible. I read reams of arguments for both sides. I took very seriously the admonition from each ‘camp’ about the apostasy and intellectual/spiritual insufficiency of the other side! I’m STILL yet no closer to choosing! – Maybe I’m just a ‘wishy-washy’ fence-sitter!

Though, I have reached some ‘tentative’ conclusions. Both systems, in their strictest forms, IMO seem to be man-made philosophies. Obviously, one can find scriptural points that seem to bolster one over the other AND vice-versa! Of course, this position (ie neither) is not new. I am STILL intrigued by the debate!

I think the utility of the debate is good, in the sense; it compels us to, study, think and pray. Who knows, someday I might ‘see the light’, Lord willing!

I just had to say this…whew…I feel better!

In Christ
Michael

 

I happen to agree.

 

Good Morning! I love this board!

I have been thinking about the changes the Lord has worked in my life in the last few months. They have been huge! And I have been wondering if and when the Lord would give me moment to share my story with someone. Well, I think this is a good place to tell my story for the first time.

A few months ago I began to ask God to give me a huge love for Himself and His Word. I asked every day many times a day and actually still ask Him for more. He bagan to work right away taking me to studies on His attributes. WOW! God is so awesome and so big and so everything. The more He showed the more I longed to study His Word and soon I found myself looking forward to morning and time with Him and His Word. I would wake up in the night and check the time to see if it was time to get up! That has been such a sweet change. As time passes He gives me much love for Himself and I am so thankful. Meditating on God's attributes day in and day out led me to have a change in doctrine. I held very strongly to Arminian doctrine for all the years of my journey some 15 years and could not see the Calvin doctrine at all. But, it seems that God has opened my eyes to His sovereign ways, showing me the meaning of election, HIs sovereignity in salvation, etc. I was weak in the faith and without the strength to fight sin in my life. I am not saying that I was unsaved although I have actually asked the Lord if that was possible, because things are so different for me now. I have a deep, God given, Love for Him and faith and strength that are products of that love. I know it is all from Him and I am mighty thankful. I will say that I am a lady that is fully Calvin, not hyper, in doctrine and pray to remain strong in Him. God has used awesome teachers like Charles Spurgeon, John Macarthur, JOhn Gill all of whom I could not even begin to understand before God opened my heart. Also, there is an awesome company called Cross Internation that produces such godly teaching videos under the name "Word Pictures" I have learned much through them.

I hope to always love the Lord to the point that I would rather not eat, than to sin in eating as in gluttony, which has been a huge sin area for me. I seemed to have no power to overcome until the last few months. Praise the Lord!

I truly hope to not offend anyone in what I say. I do, however, want to say God does open hearts so they can understand His Word and Ways. Acts 16:14, LUke 24:45.

Thanks for listening!
CAlifLady

 

Do you think a person has to be Calvinist to be saved?

 

Amen, CalifLady

Thanks for your wonderful testimony. We can all agree, regardless of our Calv/Arm view, that the Lord is good and ALL good things are from him. Praise the Lord!

Welcome! Why don't you also introduce yourself in the BaptistBoard Welcome section.

In Christ
Michael

 

Atestring- I absolutely do not believe one must be a Calvinist to be saved.
One MUST be born again in order to be saved.

 

from atestring:

Well, is the blood of Christ marked 'for Calvinists only' ? Or 'for Arminians only' ? or, for Unknown Tongues Speakers only ? Or, for Roman Catholics only ?

But it sure is for the elect only, whether they know it or not.

 

Well, is the blood of Christ marked 'for Calvinists only' ? Or 'for Arminians only' ? or, for Unknown Tongues Speakers only ? Or, for Roman Catholics only ?

But it sure is for the elect only, whether they know it or not. </font>[/QUOTE]So can an Armenian be one of the Elect?

 

To atestring-

Whether one is Calvinist OR Armenian has nothing to do with salvation -who knows ALL the answers, and who has infallible understanding of the Word exept the Divine Author Himself?
Our election is based on His good pleasure alone.

 

2TI 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

The Living God alone has knowledge of what specific humans that He created will live with Him for eternity.
And the Living God alone has knowledge of how He provided salvation for each one of them.

There is a two-fold purpose to salvation.
One is salvation (God knows who will live with him for eternity.)
The other is a holy life (sanctification).

Many want to embrace the first, and forget about the second.
John Calvin comes to mind. Many of his actions would not be considered holy. Many times when a supposed religious person gains political authority, they will persecute those who disagree with them. Calvin was a person whose actions against his enemies were not unlike any despot.

The foreknowledge of God is not just about salvation, but is also about being conformed to the likeness of the Lord Jesus Christ.

RO 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Religious people err when they try to understand too much about the "HOW" and "WHY" of God's actions. The Living God has revealed many things, but some things He has chosen not to reveal.
The "how" and "why" of salvation has not been fully revealed, and it may never be.

 

atestring wrote:

Yes.

 

Oh, by the way, atestring. The answer is yes, whether you meant Armenian as in one from Armenia or Arminian, as in one who holds to the 'whosoever' doctrine.

 

I am one of the "Niether" votes, I don't believe that either Arminian or Calvinistic are 100% right. I was raised in the Independent Baptist church, have been in the SBC for the past 5 years and work full-time for a Charismatic publishing company, so I have learned how to take the "meat" and throw away the "bones" from just about every Christian group out there.

 

Yes. </font>[/QUOTE]So Why should it matter if a person is a Calvinist or an Armenian?

 

I certainly reject 'once saved always saved'. The issue of 'predestination' is interesting, as I lean toward 'free will'. However, when Saul was heading to Damascus, he wasn't looking for Jesus, he wasn't heading to a Billy Graham Crusade to investigate the claims of Christ, no, he was going to kill/imprison Christians. No, he wasn't looking for Jesus, Jesus came looking for him! I guess the word 'mystery' applies to this topic...in some respects.

 

I voted as neither and feel that I am somewhere in between, but after hearing what I believe you might think that I belong on one side or the other. In which case let me know.

1. I believe that man is depraved. By this I mean that man is fallen, that man is born with the death penalty, that man is sinnful, and that man cannot by his own hands attain salvation. At the same time I believe that man has the ability to seek God, even though unaided he can not find him.(I guess this would be a limited depravity)
2. I believe that if a man chooses to seek God, God in turn chooses him as an elect.(I guess this would be conditional election)
3. I believe that God died that all might come to him. (I guess this would be an unlimmited atonement)
4. I believe that once man has chosen to seek God, and thus God has elected him, God anoints the elect with grace. This is an act by God alone, and thus cannot be resisted. ( would this be the same as irresistable grace?)
5.I believe that once a man has become an elect of God, and thus recieved his grace, there is nothing on earth that can remove him from the loving hand of God, including mans actions. (I guess this would be perseverance of the saints.)

So where do you think I stand on the matter?