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Featured Arminianism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, Nov 24, 2021 at 1:40 PM.

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  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "In every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness" are born from above already. It's 'regeneration BEFORE conversion', always.

    21 but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.` Jn 3
     
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    Pure fatalism
     
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member
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    But Cornelius wasn't born-again yet!

    You are forcing what the Bible actually says
     
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  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Article Four:
    That this grace of God is the beginning, continuance, and accomplishment of all good, even to this extent, that the regenerate man himself, without prevenient or assisting, awaking, following and co-operative grace, can neither think, will, nor do good, nor withstand any temptations to evil; so that all good deeds or movements, that can be conceived, must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ.

    I have bolded the synergism. Prevenient assistance and cooperation is synergism. Such a view requires a man, who has missed the mark, to cooperate with God in another attempt to hit the mark. It argues that God cannot hit the mark without human cooperation.
     
  5. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

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    There in lay s the problem, Knee Jerk reactions with on thought put into it.
     
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

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    As apposed to salvation without faith as you put forward. When you live in a glass house it is best not to thrown stones.
     
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  7. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

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    So you have to be born again before you can believe. you have a strange view of the bible.
     
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  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

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    Only a hard core Calvinist could be so blind to scripture. You think you have all the answers but what you should realize is that the bible has the answers you just have ideas.
     
  9. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

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    So saved before belief = sinners going to heaven. That is a strange logic you have there kyredneck
     
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  10. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

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    Austin doesn't God extend grace to you before your saved? Well in your view it would not really be grace but more of a demand. He saves you before you believe then realizes His mistake and drops faith into you so you will believe.
    The fact that you think Calvinism is the truth leads me to question your ability to understand simple logic. I know that sounds harsh, but that is not my intend. I just do not see how any logical person could look at God and then say He acts the way that Calvinism requires Him to act.
     
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Only after salvation. If God turns a cat into a dog, the dog can only choose what dogs choose. And if their food depends on the right choices, they will always make the right choice.......... Just an analogy.
     
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Paul speaks that way too when writing about ongoing works, running the race, etc.

    I am far from Arminianism but I do believe Christians can withstand temptations to evil or give in to evil (the former being through Christ in us). I also believe we are responsible to do good, to be kind, etc.

    Were it not for those comments in the Article I may agree with you and focus on salvation. But (to me) the Article is speaking of the Christian life.

    Even here I believe it is incorrect. But I'm not an Arminian.
     
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

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    So I have to conclude that your bible is missing these verses:
    2Co 5:18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
    2Co 5:19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
    2Co 5:20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.
    2Co 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
     
  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

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    There you go putting the cart before the horse again. You have someone saved before they even believe. Strange way to read the bible, but you see that a lot on here.
     
  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    How is that strange?
    Must you not be conceived before you can trust your mother?
    Why then would it be strange that God must make you a new creation (born again) before you can trust God as a new creation?

    You always come across as one who demands that humans drive and God merely acts as a driving instructor. Are you not aware that God does the driving? Quit trying to wrestle control from God.
     
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    See what I have bolded. This passage is all about God doing the work, being the cause, while our actions are the effect.
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    So you say. Means squat to me, coming from a hater and relentless enemy of God’s sovereign grace.

    It’s like I told you before, you come to conclusions out of thin air.
     
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Youre typical evangelical, gommed up sozo to be synonymous with the heavenly birth. Even the Reformed Calvinists have done the same, all the while proclaiming ‘regeneration before faith’. It’s strange to me that you all can be so shallow and hasty with your soteriolgy that you don’t see this in the scriptures.
     
    #58 kyredneck, Nov 25, 2021 at 8:56 PM
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021 at 9:05 PM
  19. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Active Member

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    When I read or listen to the debates between Calvinist and Arminian theologians it seems that the Calvinists by using scripture and logical application especially mop the floor with the Armenians. The problem is that the Puritan theologians did not seem to use this form of extreme step wise logic where you constantly say if this well then this and so on. In other words a Puritan might say in one sentence that faith is granted and a gift from God and in the very next sentence say above all, strive to have faith. They would warn that any sin persisted in would cause damnation then say that all saints persevere.

    Also, in 1654, under Cromwell, the Parliament called upon the Puritan divines, as they called them, to come up with a list of principles which would be the minimum for Christian fellowship. It seems that none of the 16 points require belief in the TULIP. Regarding man's depravity they said in point 12 that "All men by nature are dead in trespasses and sins and no man can be saved unless he is born again, repent and believe. In fact, the 16 points, which apparently John Owen presided over, as they developed them look a lot more like most regular Baptist churches teach than what we call modern Calvinism. (Those points are from "The Puritans" by Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones page 235.)
     
  20. Silverhair

    Silverhair Active Member

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    When will you learn, trust the bible not your failed theology. God has set the conditions you just want to change those to follow that man made view. I keep hoping that the light will come on for you.
     
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