Arminians and Prophecy

Isn't this more an argument against open theism (the idea that people's future choices are unknowable even to God) than Arminianism?

 

Hey Mercury

Yes indeed! God is able to bring about His prophecies in two ways:

1) He knows everything beforehand
2) He is so wise and powerful that puny human free will decisions cannot thwart His plans.

Lloyd

 

He knows the future because He will cause His plans to come to pass Lloyd. Everything that comes to pass is due soley to the will of God.

john.

 

Hey Johnp

Your latest post has nothing that contradicts what I posted. I am hard put to know how to respond to something that agrees with what I posted.

Perhaps you would help me out here.
Lloyd

 

Your number two did not express it in the same way. #2 looks as if the Lord would have to force it through against human will but in reality He uses man's will to acheive His ends. He uses man's will by willing in it to accomplish His plan.

That's all. How are you? We haven't crossed swords for ages.

john.

 

Hi Whetstone;

This would be true on your part if you understood what Anti-Calvinist believe. Obviously you don't understand.

Not so but he does have the ability to make a decision for Christ. For instance prophecy doesn't include who will be saved and who won't.
You may believe in the election before the foundation of the world. How ever you err about who that election is for. You did not exist before the foundation of the world, so that you could be chosen.

Let's just say they will occur. The problem you would have is that you will fail to show where it is chiseled that you would be saved personally.

Not so. Man only decides to believe. Prophecy is seldom about individuals but about events. Christ and John the Baptist were two who were prophesized about, But both brought major events about.

Not so and not scriptural. No one is ever preordained to sin.
That's hyper Calvinism.

No one has ever claimed to, have you?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Hey Johnp

Good response. True indeed. I don't think we are able to distinguish between the two as to the mechanics that God actually uses to fulfill His prophetic statements. If I tie this back into the kernel of the post, prophecy is a non-discriminator for the Calvinist/Free grace/Arminian discussion (Please note that FG is the truth surrounded by the other two well-known errors).

Thanks for asking! I just recently finished my oral defense of my dissertation at Trinity College and Seminary (Newburg IN). Hopefully, I can make the several dozens of changes (mostly minor grammatical stuff) this week!

I view as I do Coleman W. Barnwell. CWB is a close friend who is a rabid Calvinist. When we go out together we each endure each other's well intentioned "barbs."

"Crossing swords" with those who pursue Christ's righteousness is a pleasure.

Lloyd

 

Ascund,

It think it is you who are going over your dissertion for your degree.

Fine tuning your own work is a real job. The grammatical and spelling checks drive you crazy.

My dissertation was on "Quasi-Augustinian Theology." Hours and hours of work. After the Th.D. was granted I thanked the Lord for giving me the opportunity to study for His glory and praise.

Ray

 

Daniel,

With all due respect you might want to study your Bible and let it speak to you rather than having Calvin and Spurgeon talking to you about Scripture.

Under both covenants sinners rejected the Lord. Read Isaiah 65:2-3 & Acts 7:51. Also, in Leviticus 26:18 people remain rebellious against the Lord unto their own judgment by God. Check out Isaiah 63:10. Sinners can resist the ministry the working of the Holy Spirit.

If you ever become a pastor you will see it before your very eyes.

When Judas appears before the Great White Throne Judgment he will not be able to say, "Lord, you made me into a thief." Because of his rebellious and sinful life he remained a thief among the Apostolic band.

Our Lord of love and justice does not pre-program some to become saved and the rest to remain in their sinful lives.

You, me and all other human beings are responsible for our own spiritual life.

Do not do as some others do in making the Lord a co-Conspirator with Satan in sending men and women to Hell. When you FULLY understand this idea you will gladly turn from your error of Calvinism.

The Lord of glory does not plott people damnation.

 

John said:

Everything that comes to pass is due soley to the will of God.


No it isn't. Most of what comesto pass is not the will of God. It is the will of Satan. God is only responsible for the good in this world, man andx the devil, for all the evil, pain and suffering.

 

Hello HanS

JOB 2:10 He replied, "You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?" In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.

As for responsible, sinners are held responsible.

..."Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised." Job 1:21.

john.

 

Greetings Daniel

This is a typical Calvinistic superiority response. The Bible clearly shows a universal payment for sins (past/present/future). Check out Matt 26:28; Rom 5:6-8, II Cor 5:19; I Tim 1:15, 2:1-6; and I John 2:2.

This free offer of pardon is universally extended to the whole world. God is not willing that any should perish (II Pet 3:9). The Bible is full of universal atonement passages.

It seems to me that the burden of proof is upon you to show how one or two verses can countermand the clear teaching of God's Word wrt universal atonement and offer of pardon to whosoever would believe (John 3:16).

Lloyd

 

Daniel Allen,

Now I'm gonna hold you to this and I want you to produce: Please quote me from this thread where I even quoted Calvin or Spurgeon. Get back to me when you find it.

 

I think so. Besides, no one is purely Calvinist, or purely Arminian. In fact, I work with a woman who immigrated from Arminia, and she's a Calvinist.

 

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose." - Romans 8:28

Now that doesn't mean that all things happen because God willed it (God does not desire that any should perish, but many do). But it does mean that all things are premitted by God, and God's will is ultimately going to be accomplished regardless of whether any particular thing came from the will of God or not.

 

Hey David

I looked at your [long] list.

I’m only taking the first five. The errors you make in these are likely to be repeated ad nauseum in the rest of the list.

Matt 13:11 is yanked out of context. Jesus was speaking to His disciples with whom He gave special knowledge. This has nothing to do with personal election or free will.

Matt 20:16 is the parable of the landowner. The whole parable is not about personal salvation but that all disciples are equal in God’s eyes. The chosen ones are true believers who accepted the call of God and demonstrated their faith.

Matt 20:28 shows the Hebrew mind that puts word in parallel to provide a rhyme in idea. “Many” is used in the inclusive sense of “all” (cf. 1:32-34; Isa. 53:10-12). It emphasizes how a large number derive redemptive benefit from the single sacrifice of the One Redeemer. To verify this further, compare Rom. 5:15 with 18-19. (Bible Knowledge commentary)

Matt 22:14 is a clear illustration of celebration in Jesus’ kingdom. The many who are called are those who have believed in Jesus. The few chosen are the rewarded believers. When one cannot comprehend dispensations, then one falls for error.

Matt 26:28 Again, the word many is to be compared to the passages that show forgiveness by Jesus’ blood is available to the whole world (I John 2:2). You restrict the word by your presuppositions.

You have used five unclear verses where theology yanks them from context and redefines them according to your denominational presuppositions. Anyone can build a list of 600 verses proving anything using this method.

I thought this was to be a scholarly forum.
Lloyd