Attribute of God's Love

Oh Arminians... you just shown the "heart" of the matter... Wes... Love and Glory are of GOD. They are given to man, but they are not mans. I know.. it's so easy to CENTER everything around man then put God in the way you think God should love or how He should be fair but don't put your views on God because man thinks their FAIR AND LOVING because that's the way man Loves...

Psalm 50:21 21 These things you have done, and I have been silent; YOU THOUGHT THAT I WAS ONE LIKE YOURSELF. But now I rebuke you and lay the charge before you.

God will love those who He wants, how He wants and as much as He wants.. And He will harden those He wants when He wants, how He wants.

 

Then why, pray tell do you do that? Why do you take the plain truth of scripture and declare it untrue? Insisting instead that man is not capable...God created man to be capable, who are you to say otherwise?

 

Then Jesus wrong wrong when He SIMPLY said : No man is ABLE (capable) to come to God unless he is drawn (dragged). And ALL than come to Him will be LIFTED UP with Him.

YOU DO NOT believe BECAUSE you ARE NOT my sheep.

 

Ray,

Your statement is in direct opposition to scripture that declares man is not capable.

"No man can come to me..." (John 6:44)

 

Conversely, whosoever "hears" unto faith, HAS BEEN DRAWN by the Father! It is the FATHER's Words that are HEARD which draws men!

 

That is only a statement Wes... Of course whoever hears has been drawn... THATS THE POINT... The only one that is ABLE to hear is because God draws him... But God does not draw everyone! Thats why he said
John 6:65 65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." Man has to be granted BY GOD to believe...

Where does it say EXACTLY Whosoever hears has been drawn... doesn't say that Wes.. don't mix scripture

 

John 6:65 is Jesus IN THE SYNAGOG in Capernaum speaking to JEWS! Scripture tells us that God hardened the Jews, HIS ELECT PEOPLE, but gave some to Jesus, as indicated in Jesus Prayer of John 17. I named those for you, but in case you missed it

Jesus subsequently appointed Saul who He made Paul and added Paul as an Elect so that through their teaching, we could all be DRAWN by the FATHER into believing in HIS SON JESUS, and thereby have everlasting life.


The Jews have been hardened against believing BY GOD to fulfull prophesy which says "he came unto his own and his own received him not! As a group the Jews did not receive Jesus because it is not their time to do so! That same thing is not said of the Gentiles, and to the contrary is is said that the Gospel will go to the Gentiles who will receive it! Hence the Christian Church is largely a gentile church, though there are some Christian churches in Israel populated by Jews!

If you have heard (that is, understood) God's word and believed, YOU HAVE BEEN DRAWN to FAITH in Jesus! If you have not heard, that is, understood God's word, you have not been drawn by the Father to have faith IN Jesus. If you have FAITH in Jesus, the Son of God, it is because you have UNDERSTOOD the word of God sufficient to Salvation. If you do not have FAITH in Jesus, but are only "hanging around" those who do have faith, do not be surprized when they are taken and you are not!

Practice what you preach!

 

If you have not heard, that is, understood God's word, you have not been drawn by the Father to have faith IN Jesus. If you have FAITH in Jesus, the Son of God, it is because you have UNDERSTOOD the word of God sufficient to Salvation.

So then, you have to be smart enough to understand.. or wise enough, or humble enough... your man centered philosophy will not let you bow down to God... Jesus said you NOT BELIEVE because YOU ARE NOT MY SHEEP.. not because "You don't understand... The heart has to change to have AFFECTIONS toward God... You can't WILL that because man's affections are toward evil continually.

Also Jesus said all that the father gives me (draws) WILL COME TO ME. So ... if He allows everybody the CHANCE by drawing them, then ALL will come.

 

Ray,
Stop switching the imparitve for the indicative!

 

Why is it that because I am doing what scriptures tell me to do, that you want to tear me down to your level?

Scriptures command me to believe in Jesus! I do everything in the power and capabilities that God built into me to do just that! It is with God given capability and power that I have heard God's word and understood, and believed in God the Son. Why is it that you think I am not able to do what God says I am able to do? Are you believing the Father of Lies? That one who would have you keep potential believers in Jesus confused and in the dark regarding their responsibility to HAVE FAITH! Instead you would have them just sit back and wait to hear their name called so they can be saved!

As for who is smart enough, etc., even the poor in spirit waiting at the gate for a handout are better off than the one sitting in a mansion dining sumptuously. The one at the gate eagerly accepts while the other is self-satisfied and picks and chooses from the buffet of life.

Your pious judgment of me is unfounded! You appear ignorant of the truth, though you have all knowledge at your disposal!

 

Ray,
There is a forum on the Revelation passage that you cited. I would be glad to get your view and critiques of my first post and see how this verse supposedly is in opposition to Calvinism. Here is the forum:

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1209.html

In Christ

 

Hi RC;

Not true all men are drawn;
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
May God Shine His Light on us;
Mike

 

Mike,
There is a forum on that verse also. I would love to see your critique of my first post because this verse does not teach what you say it does. (I am almost tempted to say, John 12 is just for the Jews!)

In Christ

 

Are you looking for a critique of the verse as a standalone scripture? If so, I pass!

 

Do you not realize that God is a trinity; three persons? The greatest affection for the Father is for His Son, the greatest affection for the Son is His Father, the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Son and the Father demonstrates the supreme love that each has for the other. In short the greatest affection of God is for God. The Father's love for the Son is shown that He has exalted Him and given him a name above all others, the Son's love for the Father is shown in His obedience to His will, even the death of the cross.

 

Wow, Monergist, I can certainly agree with that!

 

Hi Monergist;

We do not have three separate Gods. The Son is the Father and the Spirit as well. Yet you want to argue there separateness.

Do you have a son? and if you do, would you give him up for me?,,,,, If you gave him up for me, your only son. How could you say that you did it because you loved your self more than me?,,,, Your statement is ridiculous and self defeating.

If I had a son to give up for you I would only give up my son under certain circumstances. The main of which, would be a matter of Love and my love for you would have to be greater than my love for my own son. Even if I knew that giving Him up would save you eternally. And even if I knew my son already had eternal life.

If my Father gave me up for you and I was about to die so that you could live then in order for me to do this I would have to Love you more than my father and yet I would still love my father and I would be honoring Him by doing His will.

You would make it seem that Christ didn't die for us so that we may live, but that He died for His Father will. That's shear nonsense. I will say that the whole scenario of the lost and the Fathers will came into play. But we still have to remember they are all the same person in the trinity.

Christ Laid down His life willingly of His own will no man took it from Him.

I do not deny that our God loves Himself because I don't believe a person can love without first loving them selves. Dying for someone is the ultimate act of Love. There is no greater Love than this. Christ may have fulfilled the Fathers will but He died for us. He suffered for us. He descended into the depths of the earth for us. He paid for our sins took all of them on Him self. A righteous God. An innocent God died for us.

Was it to His Glory? Yes. Was it for his Glory? No it was for us.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Mike,
Do you adhere to "Oneness" theology (Sabellianism, Modalism)?

 

God's Chief end is Himself. And can ONLY do something for not TO His glory. The Creation of the world was for His glory because He did it. The death of Christ was Chiefly the end for nothing but the Glory of the Father.. The redemption was a subordinate end, with the Chief being THE GLORY OF GOD.

Please read From "The End For Which God Created the World" by Jonathan Edwards.. this is a part of page that concerns the issue at hand...

So is that in Isa. 43 as we shall see plainly, if we take the whole that is said from the beginning of the chapter, verse 1-7. It is wholly a promise of a future, great, and wonderful work of God’s power and grace, delivering his people from all misery, and making them exceeding happy; and then the end of all, or the sum of God’s design in all, is declared to be God’s own glory. “I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name, thou art mine. — I will be with thee. — When thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burnt, neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. — Thou art precious and honourable in my sight. I will give men for thee, and people for thy life. Fear not, I am with thee. — I will bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; every one that is called by my name: for I HAVE CREATED HiM FOR MY GLORY."