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Babbling Against Speaking in Tongues

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Deadworm, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. Deadworm

    Deadworm Member

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    This thread is intended to challenge opponents of speaking in tongues to reconsider whether it is God's will for them to seek this spiritual gift. I will use these 5 points to initiate discussion:

    (1) Paul's command to "pray in the Spirit" is fulfilled by striving to speak in tongues. 2 points establish this teaching: (a) Paul commands us to "pray in the Spirit" (Eph 6:18) and speaking in tongues is the only form of praying in the Spirit in the Bible (1 Cor 14:15). (b) Paul commands us to "strive for spiritual gifts (14:1)," clarifying this command with his desire for all of us to speak in tongues (14:5). (c) Paul repeatedly commands us to imitate his spirituality (1 Cor 4:16; 11:1; Phil 3:17) and makes it clear that such imitation includes a demonstration of the Spirit and of power (4:29-20; cp. 2:4-5).

    (2) Point (1) is not refuted by Paul's preference that we all prophesy (14:5). This counter-point is refuted by 2 facts: (a) Those who disregard tongues for this reason blaspheme the Holy Spirit by implying that some of His gifts are irrelevant and not needed. If speaking in tongues were not important, why does Paul celebrate the fact that he speaks in tongues more than everyone (14:18)?
    (b) If prophecy is the greatest spiritual gift, speaking in tongues is just as great if it is interpreted (14:5). In that sense, both gifts are equally "great" and should therefore both be diligently sought. (c) What critics fail to realize is this: in 1 Cor 14 Paul is addressing the specific situation in which believers are speaking in uninterpreted tongues in public worship services at which outsiders are present who are not ready for such unintelligible Spirit manifestations. But Paul encourages speaking in tongues in private prayer sessions (1 Cor 14:28; cp. 14:4) and in other public meetings (e. g. Acts 19:1-6).

    (3) Point (1) is not refuted by the false claim that the gift of speaking in tongues is not divinely intended for everyone (12:29-30). (a) Paul insists that we "can all prophesy one by one (14:31)." Yet the gift of prophesy is included in Paul's list that critics invoke to claim that these gifts are not divinely intended for everyone. So what Paul is instead teaching is this: Look around you: not everyone actually exercises their prophetic potential, but I want all believers to do so. (b) So when Paul encourages us all to speak in tongues, he clearly means that this gift if available to all believers.

    (4) In 3 of the 4 times people receive the Holy Spirit in Acts, they demonstrate this by speaking in tongues (2:1-18; 10:44-47; 19:1-6). In the 4th case, tongues are not mentioned, but the experience of receiving the Spirit is so dramatic that Simon the Magician offers money to learn the secret of channeling such power (8:19-20). so it is reasonable to believe that these Samaritan converts also spoke in tongues when they received their Spirit baptism. This well established pattern does not mean that Spirit baptism requires speaking in tongues (see 1 Cor 12:13); but it is further evidence that the gift of tongues should be diligently sought (1 Cor 12:31: 14:1).

    (5) The tongues in contemporary languages in Acts 2 are NOT normative for later manifestations of this gift. That eruption is identified as prophecy (2:17-18 citing Joel 2:28), but tongues are subsequently distinguished from prophecy (19:5-6; 1 Cor 12,and 14). The tongues in Acts 10:44-47 and 19:1-6 are neither understood nor interpreted. In Greco-Roman parallels speaking in tongues (Greek: "glossai") is understood as ecstatic gibberish that needs a prophet for interpretation. Paul prefers to view this non-human gibberish as angelic language (1 Cor 13:1) and labels tongues speakers as "zealots of spirits (14:12)" a phrase that means "zealots of angels (see Heb 1:7)." Jews in Paul's day embraced the possibility of interpreting angelic languages. This point is illustrated by eminent first-century rabbi, Yohanan ben Zakkai and by the Jewish work, The Testament of Job.






     
  2. Deadworm

    Deadworm Member

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    Among other things, praying in tongues "builds up" the believer and enriches praise (1 Cor 14:4). That's no doubt the reason for Paul's boast, "I thank God that I speak with tongues more than you all (14:18)." To see what this means in practice please read my testimony below.

    When I was 16, my perception of errors and contradictions in Scripture created a faith crisis that put me on the brink of agnosticism. My doubts became more crippling as a result of my growing disillusionment with the charismatic manifestations (tongues, interpretation, ecstatic prophecy, etc.) that I witnessed in my Canadian Pentecostal church. Members were encouraged to speak in tongues, but my initial experience of tongues, though it gave me a great spiritual high, seemed the product of church pressure and wishful thinking. In desperation, I decided to give God another chance to make Himself real to me. So I attended a weeklong series of camp meetings in western Manitoba. After the evening services, I lingered at the front to pray at the chairs lining the platform. I was determined not to surrender to wishful thinking or manipulation, and so, my initial experience up there was empty and depressing. Then came a Tuesday that saved my faith, changed my life, and led to my calling to be a theology professor and later a pastor.

    I began the day with a long 7-mile walk in the country during which I argued and pled with God to help me. I promised Him that I'd sacrifice my life for Him, if necessary, if He would only make Himself real to me. The walk made me very hungry, but as a I entered the camp cafeteria, I decided to fast and put my food money in the evening offering. The evening service in the outdoor amphitheater did not inspire me. After the service, I again lingered at the front in prayer, as the people drifted out. My heart felt like stone as I struggled to persevere in prayer. Then it happened!

    I suddenly felt a warm breeze which I initially assumed came off the adjacent lake, but I soon realized that this was "the rushing might wind" of the Holy Spirit. I was possessed by the Holy Spirit and involuntarily spoke in tongues at the top of my voice. As I did, wave after wave of liquid love surged through my being, each more intense than the last. The sense of divine connection was so powerful that I feared it might kill me and at one point it felt as if my small mind was about to be absorbed into God's mind! I experienced a hundred times more sweetness, grace, love, and intimate bonding with the Spirit than I have ever experienced before or since.

    A few spectators drifted in to watch in awe what God was doing in the now dimmed amphitheater. Self-conscious, I later asked one lady why she was there, and she replied, "Don't you know? Your face is glowing in the dark!" Then a Lutheran minister approached me to say that he didn't believe in this sort of thing and was only there as an interested spectator. But he could tell God was doing a special work in me and asked for prayer. I just touched him gently on the forehead and he exploded into tongues!

    When I returned to my cabin, I realized that God had spoken this message to me; "Son, you desperately crave answers, but right now answers are not good for you because you live too much from your head and not from your heart. What I want you to do is just live the big questions until they lead you to the center of my heart." This calling led to my pursuit of a BA, MDiv (Princeton), and doctorate in New Testament, Judaism, and Greco-Roman backgrounds (Harvard).

    That day also transformed and renewed my mind. Suddenly my academic performance in school improved dramatically and the Lord revealed to me that I'd receive the highest GPA in the province. This gift helped finance my interminable academic studies. Also, I was given the gift of "the world of knowledge (1 Cor 12:8)." This gift later blessed me greatly, but it initially confused me and raised significant questions about its purpose. I will start a separate thread about my many premonitions.

    My most sobering reflection about that fateful Tuesday, by far the greatest day of my life, is that I would probably not be a Christian today if the Lord had not so dramatically responded to my longing.
     
  3. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    Thank you for sharing your experience. I, too, long to have a deep, personal experience of God, in whatever way He chooses.
     
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Praying in the Spirit is not in tongues, but its when the Holy Spirit incedes for us, as he takes the prayers to Jesus in a way that fits into the plans and purposes of God!
    Jesus never spoke in tongues, was he not then either spirit filled, nor making powerful prayers, nor having a real relationship with His Father while in prayers?
     
  5. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    I think you make a good point. I never saw the "groanings too deep for words" (Romans 8:26) as being tongues.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Many Charasmatic misunderstand stand to be meaning that though...
     
  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Alternative exposition: When Paul uses the phrase "praying ... in the Spirit" this is warning against the works of the flesh. Pray in the Spirit not in the flesh.

    Praying in the flesh? Yes of course, empty, Yes eloquent perhaps but not motivated by the Spirit within us but by the flesh to impress God or man or both.

    Don't do that.
     
    #7 HankD, Sep 22, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Aklso, can mean that the Spirit Himself can pray for us to Jesus, even when we do not know how to speak what we want to, as just to burdened or too much pain for examples...
     
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