Baptism

Every instance that I see in scripture they were baptized straight away, could you show me one instance in the bible were a long time elaped before they were baptized.

Act 2:37-41 And hearing this, they were stabbed in the heart, and said to Peter and to the other apostles, Men, brothers, what shall we do? (38) Then Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ to remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (39) For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all those afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call. (40) And with many other words he earnestly testified and exhorted, saying, Be saved from this perverse generation. (41) Then those who gladly received his word were baptized. And the same day there were added about three thousand souls.

Another one were it was straight away
Act 8:11-16 And they were paying attention to him, because for a long time he had amazed them with conjuring. (12) But when they believed Philip preaching the gospel, the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. (13) Then Simon himself believed also, and being baptized, he continued with Philip. And seeing miracles and mighty works happening, he was amazed. (14) And the apostles in Jerusalem hearing that Samaria had received the Word of God, they sent Peter and John to them; (15) who when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. (16) For as yet He had not fallen on any of them, they were baptized only in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Here we see Phillip as soon as the eunich found water wanting and was baptized
Act 8:35-38 Then Philip opened his mouth and began at the same Scripture and preached the gospel of Jesus to him. (36) And as they passed along the way, they came on some water. And the eunuch said, See, here is water, what hinders me from being baptized? (37) Philip said, If you believe with all your heart, it is lawful. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still. And they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch. And he baptized him.


And again no waiting
Act 10:44-48 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those hearing the Word. (45) And those of the circumcision, who believed (as many as came with Peter), were astonished because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on the nations also. (46) For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, (47) Can anyone forbid water that these, who have received the Holy Ghost as well as we, should not be baptized? (48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they begged him to stay certain days.

Now I will give you Lydia as one that is not very clear about straight away, so I have found one out of many.
Act 16:14-15 And a certain woman named Lydia heard us, a seller of purple of the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God; whose heart the Lord opened, so that she attended to the things which were spoken by Paul. (15) And when she was baptized, she and her household, she begged us, saying, If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay. And she constrained us.

But then we find immediately.
Act 16:29-33 Then asking for a light he rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. (30) And leading them outside, he said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? (31) And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, and your household. (32) And they spoke the Word of the Lord to him, and to all who were in his household. (33) And taking them in that hour of the night, he washed from their stripes. And he was baptized, he and all his, immediately.

Act 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house. And hearing this, many of the Corinthians believed and were baptized.

Every instance I find in scripture just doesnt line up with your wait until they have no sin in there life and then baptized. No every instance in scripture it was done as soon as they found water. I ask you to show me with scripture your stance on waiting, because if it doesnt line up with scripture you are wasting my time with all this back and forth stuff.

 

Here's my BIGGEST problem with taking someone in who is activly living with someone. It says to not let our good be evil spoken of. Another place it states to not cast your pearls before the swine. When someone is living with(not married to) someone, it shows a bad light. We don't put our light under a bushel basket. We place it where it may give light to the whole house. This scenario is nothing but negative. If we have members of our churches living together, it makes it look okay to live this lifestyle, when truthfully, it isn't. How can anyone preach a sermon against immorality, and then take someone in living this way? If she has truly been saved, the Holy Ghost will lead her away from such a lifestyle. Just like the Prodigal son in Luke chapter 15, we have to come out of the "hog lot" to find Father's house.

Willis

 

Would that not include people living in adulty married. People that have unbiblical divorce and then remarried that we tend to overlook since they are married. Its sin non the less but we take them into our churchs and baptize them. Whats the difference. I see none myself.

 

I agree with you 100%, so since when did we become the Holy Ghost and trying to do his "JOB" for lack of a better word. Its not the Pastors "JOB" to convict these people its his "JOB" to give them the word from GOD and then the HOLY SPIRIT uses that word to work on there hearts. Its like during an "ALTER CALL" when a Pastor cant shut up long enough for the spirit to work on someone.

The music is playing and the spirit is moving around the building and then the Pastor opens his mouth and trys to convice you to walk the isle. Its like they dont think that the Holy Spirit can work without them, up to that point they did there part then they need to move out of the way and let the Holy Spirit lead the people down the isle. If a man leads you down the isle did that man save you or does Jesus save you. If the Holy Spirit wasnt involved in the process and you conviced someone to walk the isle are they truly saved to begin with???? Just some things to think about anyway.:godisgood:

 

Someone who is married is not living in adultery unless they are engaged in sexual relations with someone they are not married to. Your premise is faulty here. Even if people are divorced (regardless of why they are divorced, and I assure you without any fear of contradiction that you do not hate divorce more than I do), if they are remarried, they are not living in adultery.

That is completely different than two unmarried people living together.

 

You just showed me that your belief system and mine are way different brother, because I take the word of GOD to mean what it says and what you say doesnt line up with scripture at all. The word of GOD clearly states that its adultry.

This is what scripture says Larry.
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever shall put away his wife, except for the cause of fornication, causes her to commit adultery. And whoever shall marry her who is put away commits adultery.

Your view doesnt come close to what scripture says now does it.

Mat 19:8-9 He said to them, Because of your hard-heartedness Moses allowed you to put away your wives; but from the beginning it was not so. (9) And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is put away commits adultery.

Mar 10:6-12 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (7) For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife. (8) And the two of them shall be one flesh. So then they are no longer two, but one flesh. (9) Therefore what God has joined together, let not man put apart. (10) And in the house His disciples asked Him again about the same. (11) And He said to them, Whoever shall put away his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. (12) And if a woman shall put away her husband and marries to another, she commits adultery.

Luk 16:18 Everyone putting away his wife and marrying another commits adultery; and everyone marrying her who is put away from her husband commits adultery.

Luk 18:20-21 You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and your mother. (21) And he said, I have kept all these from my youth up.

Rom 7:2-3 For the married woman was bound by law to the living husband. But if the husband is dead, she is set free from the law of her husband. (3) So then if, while her husband lives, she is married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress. But if the husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress by becoming another man's wife.

This verse right here below shows that adulterers, and fornicators, among other things are all the same Larry
1Co 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals, (10) nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

and again in
Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness, (20) idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies, (21) envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Heb 13:4 Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled, but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.


THEY ARE THE SAME, people living together unmarried and sleeping together are fornicators and people that are married after an unbiblical divorce are adulterers. Really in truly the couple living together are only commiting sin when they fornicate, the married couple are sinning all the time by being married. Im not saying that either one is right, but what Im saying is that they are both wrong but you accept one of them and not the other. SHAME ON YOU.

 

OH and Larry I am still waiting for that biblical eviendence to support your claim, I provided mine.

 

MorganT:
"Every instance I find in scripture just doesnt line up with your wait until they have no sin in there life and then baptized. No every instance in scripture it was done as soon as they found water."

GE:
Every instance?
Not so.
Show me? How many instances do you really find where water came into play and is mentioned?

NOT ONCE ON PENTECOST, TO BEGIN WITH.

 

WRONG as we find in
Act 2:41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized. And the same day there were added about three thousand souls.

This is at Pentecost and its plain to see that they were water baptized.

I think it has been clear from the beginning of this thread that we are talking about water baptism in this particual thread, since the original poster was speaking of a Pastor who refused to water baptize a convert who had requested it.

 

So when the Bible says that if a divorced person remarries they have not sinned, you disagree? You are showing that you don't believe the Bible.

Face it, your charges against me are silly and you know it. Stop with the foolishness.

No they aren't, not biblically anyway. When they are married, they are no longer committing adultery.

What is your advice to a couple who is remarried after divorce? Stop having sexual relations? That is sin according to 1 Cor 7. Get divorced? That is sin according to you.

 

I dont want anyone to get me wrong on this thead, I believe that joining your local church is very important and especially getting envolved in that local church. BUT I also feel that when we are baptized with water (TO BE SPECIFIC) that its a symbol that we are being obedient to the word and joining a church which is just a smaller unit of a much larger picture. When it speaks of the church it is speaking of every Bible teaching Jesus saving church, (I had to throw that one in there, if you dont believe Jesus is the only way then to me its a cult) as a whole, now we cant attend every church so we join with our local church but if I go on vacation I can walk into a church in another state and WORSHIP with them because im still in Jesus Christ Church, does that make any sense, it does to me anyhow.

 

Were do you get this stuff from Larry, I see no scripture anywere just your ideas. BACK IT UP BROTHER, show me with scripture were it says that when you remarry its not sin since I have proven with scripture that it is already refer back to post #86.

 

Too bad you didn't know the Scripture before you started your rant. It is always helpful to be informed ahead of time.

There is plainly states that if you are "released from a wife" (meaning divorced) and if you marry, you have not sinned.

Now the point is simple: Taking a couple of passages out of the context of Scripture means you don't have a biblical position. Divorce is more complex than you allow. As I stated, I am positive that you do not hate divorce more than I do. I am also confident that your position is not biblical because the Bible says something else.

So I ask again: What is your advice to a couple who is remarried after divorce? Stop having sexual relations? That is sin according to 1 Cor 7. Get divorced? That is sin according to you.

 

I guess it depends on your view of released from a wife. Does it really mean divorce or widowed?

 

Just a little commentary to understand a bit better

1Co 7:27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife.

1Co 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife?.... Or to a woman; either by promise, or by espousal, or by consummate marriage; either of which is a tic, or obligation, a bond, and especially the latter; marriage is such a bond as cannot be dissolved, but by the death of one of the parties; see Rom_7:2 unless in case of adultery, or of wilful desertion: and it is a bond which mutually obliges; as the husband is bound by the law of marriage to live chastely and lovingly with his wife, and to take care of her, and provide for her; so the wife is bound by the same law to live in like manner with her husband, and to submit unto him, and obey him:

seek not to be loosed; do not depart from her, nor seek to be divorced, nor even desire to be loosed by death:

art thou loosed from a wife? being either never married, or else if having been married the wife is dead, or legally divorced for a just cause:

seek not a wife, or woman; make no inquiry after one; be content to live without one; enter not into a marriage state, nor take any step towards it; it is best to continue loosed, for the reason above given, that is, provided the person has the gift of continence, otherwise not; see 1Co_7:5.

1Co 7:28 But if you do marry, you did not sin; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But such shall have trouble in the flesh, but I spare you.

1Co 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou sinnest not,.... If a man that has never been married, or one that has, if legally loosed from his wife, thinks fit to marry, he commits no sin, he breaks no law of God, far from it; marriage is honourable in all. The apostle would be understood, that in the advice he before gives, he is not dissuading from marriage, as a thing sinful and criminal; only that it was more advisable to such as could to abstain from it, under the present circumstances of things; and what he says of a man holds equally true of a virgin:

and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned; the one may as lawfully marry as another; there is no law forbidding virgins to marry, any more than young men; and if they think fit to enter into such a state, they break no law of God, and consequently sin not:

nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh; that is, such young men and virgins, who choose to marry, and who generally promise themselves a great deal of pleasure, shall meet with a great deal of trouble; and that even where they expected the most satisfaction and delight, "in the flesh"; the body, the outward man, and external circumstances of life. This "trouble" is the same with the present necessity before mentioned, the persecutions and tribulations the saints should suffer in the flesh, for the sake of Christ and his Gospel; not that married persons should be the only ones that should have trouble in this way, but that such persons would be less able to bear it, or to escape from it. Moreover, this may be extended to all the sorrows, troubles, and distresses which attend a married state:

but I spare you; the sense of which is, either that the apostle, out of his great tenderness to such who were inclined to marry, and could not contain, just gave this hint, that such should have trouble in the flesh; but did not dwell upon it or enter into particulars, lest they should be discouraged from it, and fall into temptation, sin, and a snare; or because of the great respect he had to the Corinthians, he gave the above advice to keep themselves single, that they might the better bear afflictions and persecutions, for the sake of their profession, and escape many troubles which others endure.

You see Larry, I do understand scripture quite well, and Im trying to help you to understand it. Scripture must line up with scripture

 

Look at the verse:

Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released.
Are you released from a wife? Do not seek a wife (i.e., to be married).

In both lines, "married" means the same thing. On what basis would we suggest that "released" means something different? Would Paul really be telling people in the first line not to seek the death of their spouse? I doubt it. He was telling them not to seek to be divorced.

This fits earlier in the chapter where he says if your spouse is willing to live with you, live with them. But if they depart, you are not bound. Now, there is debate about what they are not bound to, but in all views, it essentially boils down to the marriage. If you spouse seeks to leave you, you are no longer married.

 

Cutting and pasting lengthy comments don't help me believe that you understand it, particularly when you hold a faulty position. BTW, when you cut and paste something, you need to give credit for it.

You notice right off that Scripture has been added to.

No, I don't see that at all. I see that you can work cntrl-C and cntrl-V on the keyboard.

But you are missing a key question, and this will be now the third time that I have asked it. Please do not delay to answer it:

What is your advice to a couple who is remarried after divorce? Stop having sexual relations? That is sin according to 1 Cor 7. Get divorced? That is sin according to you.

 

Your right Larry the commentary goes to John Gill from Esword program, now you happy

The answer to your next question is YES my advice to a couple who is remarried after divorce for non biblical reasons would be to get divorced because now get this very clear Larry, JUST BECAUSE MAN SAYS THERE MARRIED DOESNT MEAN THAT GOD DOES. You see Larry the bible says its sin and you being a Pastor and all should know the word REPENT means to turn away from sin, which means what Larry, to keep right on living in it, I dont think so. I believe in Gods eyes those people are still married to there first spouse in Gods eyes just like scripture says Larry, you know were it says 1Co 7:7-11 For I would that all men were even as I myself am. But each has his proper gift from God, one according to this manner and another according to that. (8) I say therefore to the unmarried and the widows, It is good for them if they remain even as I. (9) But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn. (10) And to the married I command (not I, but the Lord), a woman not to be separated from her husband. (11) But if she is indeed separated, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to leave his wife.

Seems pretty clear to me after divorce they are to remain unmarried just like I have shown you Larry.

 

Alright Larry lets look at this scripture shall we

Mat 19:4-9 And He answered and said to them, Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning "made them male and female", (5) and said, For this cause a man shall leave father and mother and shall cling to his wife, and the two of them shall be one flesh? (6) Therefore they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. (7) They said to Him, Why did Moses then command to give a bill of divorce and to put her away? (8) He said to them, Because of your hard-heartedness Moses allowed you to put away your wives; but from the beginning it was not so. (9) And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is put away commits adultery.

Verse 5 says that God makes a couple as 1 when you divide one, you still have 1 correct 1 divdided by 1 still equals 1. So guess what Larry just because a couple goes down to the court house and gets a bill of divorce, they are still 1 in Gods eyes.

Verse 6 Therefore they are no longer two but one, now go ahead and finish the sentence Larry Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. So I conclude that in Gods eyes a non biblical divorce those people are still 1

Verse 9 says what Larry Whoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is put away commits adultery.

We conclude then Larry that non biblical divorce is SIN, Larry and what do preachers preach against Larry SIN and what do they tell us to do with SIN, Larry they tell us to REPENT. Now do I need to define REPENT, well I guess I do
repent
2 entries found.

1repent (verb)

2repent (adjective)

Main Entry: 1re·pent
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈpent\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French repentir, from Medieval Latin repoenitēre, from Latin re- + Late Latin poenitēre to feel regret, alteration of Latin paenitēre — more at penitent
Date: 14th century
intransitive verb
1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2 a: to feel regret or contrition b: to change one's mind
transitive verb
1: to cause to feel regret or contrition
2: to feel sorrow, regret, or contrition for
— re·pent·er noun

This Copy and Paste brought to you by http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/repent
All right reserved
WEW, I got the advertising in there for you Larry

 

Larry, please tell me if we are getting somewere, I dont want you to feel as though I am attacking you in any way, I am trying to converse about the Bible and having a hard time comprehending why you refuse to acknowdge the scripture and I have been using your name for imphasis not to degrade you. I want to make that clear. I in no way am degrading you so if it seems that way please dont take it that way. We are discussion the Bible and to be honest I am getting a bit frustrated with your lack to acknoldege the scriptures for what they are and you seem to come across upset when I used commentary to help shove a point to you.

Were are we miscommunitcating on this could someone point it out to me or am I so zoned in on this that I can t see it.