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Featured Baptist Confession Making 1644 and 1689

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by tyndale1946, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    #1 tyndale1946, Mar 1, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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  2. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Don't see an article at your link, but I found this interesting page there about their 'International Fellowship of Reformed Baptists':

    reformation-today.org/ifrb/
     
  3. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for calling attention to this article, Brother Glen. Looks quite interesting. Since that link just goes to the home page, I'm adding one that should go directly to the article.


     
  4. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    I corrected it but thank you for the help, Brother Robert... I found the article quite insightful and one that should be added to the Baptist History Library... And thank you Jerome, I'll take a look at that one too... Nice to know our Baptist roots... Brother Glen:)
     
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Jerome!... I think you need to really look at that page:eek:... Does it come with an interpreter?:confused:... Brother Glen:D
     
  6. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Oh, I did. Didn't I say it was...interesting.
     
  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    TOUCHE'... Brother Glen:Roflmao
     
  8. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Brother Glen, I have printed and read the article. Pretty interesting. I would have enjoyed a bit more history on the 1644 Confession, but I understand that was not his emphasis -- especially considering it was presented on the 300th anniversary of the 1689 Confession. I like the way he pointed out that the Westminster Confession was mediated through the Savoy Confession to the Baptists (that is, ideas that came from Savoy rather than Westminster). Thanks again.

    Here's another article on the topic: Confessing the Faith in 1644 and 1689, James M. Renihan | The Reformed Reader
     
  9. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Read that one too!... Thanks Brother Robert!... Brother Glen:)
     
  10. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    The Second London is often considered little more than a Baptist cribbing of the Westminster. (I once thought that until I compared how they differ.) However, it often agrees with the Savoy Declaration (i.e., Congregationalist) as against the Westminster and differs from both on important points (aside from rejecting paedobaptism).

    A comparison of the Second London, Savoy and Westminster, with the additions of the Philadelphia Baptist Confession, is here:

    Tabular Comparison of 1646 WCF, 1658 Savoy Declaration, the 1677/1689 LBCF, and the 1742 PCF
     
    #10 rsr, Mar 4, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
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  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I've been saying the same for at least the last decade on the BB!

    It's sort of a distillation process --WCoF --Savoy --to the London 1689.

    Of course the 1689 was a work in progress itself. The 1644 version was based on The True Confession and The Marrow of Theology by William Ames (1576-1633). There was the 1646 revision and the 1677 edition as well. I think there was one more in the middle of the 17th century.
     
  12. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Excellent article, brother Glen. Thank you for posting.
    Robert Oliver is a fine Pastor and historian, though quite elderly now.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    :Laugh:Roflmao:Roflmao

    BTW, Pam is going in for her 2nd round of chemo today... please hold us in your prayers
     
  14. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Just prayed for your dear wife.
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Thank you
     
  16. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    That "cribbing" was intentional as the framers of the 1689 were not seeking a novel invention. They only departed from the WCF in those areas that differentiated between Baptists and Presbyterians. The general aim was peace, as the preamble of the 1689 testifies: 1689 LBC with preamble
     
  17. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Yes, and their differentiation from Presbyterianism involved more than just believers baptism and biblical ecclesiology. Some other examples are: deleting the term "Sacrament", deleting the term "Reformed", and taking as a basis what is "necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture" rather than the Presbyterians' what "by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture."
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this valuable article. One point worth mentioning are the two versions of the Trinity found in the 1644, and the 1646 version. The 1646 teaches "Incarnate Sonship", and the 1644 and 1689 teach "Eternal Sonship". Both I think are valid. But incarnate sonship seeks to alleviate the appearance of time in eternity. That is the Father and Word are without the appearance of the Father causing the Son, as in Eternal Sonship, that depicts the Father generating the Son. I always thought eternal sonship might conflict with the doctrine of divine simplicity.
     
    #18 1689Dave, May 4, 2018
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
  19. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I don't see that in my copies. The 1644 is a traditional (Latin, not Greek) Athanasian formulation: eternal generation of the Son and procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father and Son.

    The 1646 sidesteps all those details, simply affirming "each having the whole divine Essence, yet the Essence undivided; all infinite without any beginning ... "
     
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The 1644 uses Son (Catholic Trinity). the 1646 uses Word in place of Son. If you study the two trinitarian views and return to the creeds, you can see it. The 1646 teaches "Incarnate Sonship", and the 1644 and 1689 teach the Catholic "Eternal Sonship"
     
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