Baptist, protestant or not?

[GODzThunder]

The majority of the world clumps the baptist denomination as being the world's largest protestant group today. Yet, there are those who would protest this stating that the Baptist denomination is not protestant as our roots do not trace back directly to a break away from the Catholic Church (hence the name protestant -- protesting the catholic dogma). I am curious to know what your view of this is and perhaps give a posting as to why you believe what you believe.

 

[rsr]

Some previous discussions on this topic and related topics:

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/16/343.html?

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/16/334.html?

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/16/328.html?

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/16/271.html?

 

[RandR]

GODz Thunder,
Folks split hairs over this.

Those who narrowly define Protestant in terms of the magisterial reformers say the answer to your question is no.

Those who define Protestant more broadly, as in "not Catholic" would say yes. When you hear media sources refer to Baptists as the largest Protestant group, they broadly mean the largest non-Catholic group.

And the trail of blood folks would say, "not Protestant" because one can't be something one predates.

 

[EaglewingIS4031]

Baptist are Protestant! Baptists developed from the Puritains which were Protestants. The theology followed closely with that of Calvin, Luther and others.

Modern day Presbyterians and Congrigationalist also came from Puritainism. The Puritains not only protested the Catholic Church but the Catholic influences in the Anglican Church. Therefore Baptist are Protestant.

Baptist such as Roger Williams Protested the Catholic tradition of Paedobaptism in the Puritain churches.

John Bunyan author of Pilgram's Progress was a Puritain Baptist.

Check out the London Baptist Confession of 1689. It is defenantly anti-Catholic & pro-Reformation. It is a forerunner of the Baptist Faith and Message used by the SBC. It's predecessor was the Westmenster Confession which is undeniably Protestant and still used by many Presbyterians.

Baptist are founded on the reformation cry of:
Faith Alone
Scripture Alone
and Christ Alone!

Check out the Reformed Reader www.reformedreader.org for more information on the true Baptist history. You can read the 1689 confession there.

Landmarkism is at best a fraud and at worst a destructive cult.


With grace seasoned with salt:
Eaglewing

P.S. TULIP's are my favorite flower

 

[Dr. Bob]

Baptists are not Protestant, but had a separate existance and heritage from the mainline Reformation.

When I volunteered for the chaplaincy during Vietnam, I was listed as "Baptist", not Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, etc.

 

[EaglewingIS4031]

Dr. Bob
Prove it!
I want historical evidence that Baptists or a group with Baptist theology existed before the Reformation, outside of the Church of Rome.

 

[Kiffin]

There were a few baptistic type groups such as the Waldenses that probably can be traced back no further than the 12th century though the Waldenses were not Baptists.

The Reformation Anabaptists were the forerunners to the Modern Baptists and no doubt planted the seeds for the rise of the General Baptist of England. It would be the Particular Baptists however that would refine Baptist theology with the writing of the 1644 London Confession.

Baptists are Protestants. Baptists have our spiritual roots in both the English Reformation of the Church of England and the Radical Reformation of the Anabaptists.

 

[EaglewingIS4031]

Exactly!
Thanks Bro Kiffen!
Though there may have been other groups with fundemntal Biblical theology Baptist are Protestant.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Why not look at 100 history books dealing with various groups that ran parallel to the Catholic/Orthodox tradition.

None would be exactly like MY church today, most many would hold to similar beliefs. Baptists no more came from Calvin or Luther than from the man in the moon.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
SNIP...None would be exactly like MY church today, most many would hold to similar beliefs. Baptists no more came from Calvin or Luther than from the man in the moon.

The last sentence is the operative one in this discussion. At best we are half-brothers of the Protestants, but we are not full brothers. Same Father, different mother. Pray, let me apply what I wrote on the Waldensian thread:

As Anglo-American Baptists (the origins ofGerman, Russian, and other Continental Baptist groups are easily documented.), our origins are shrouded in the mists of time and are known but to God.

 

[mioque]

"As Anglo-American Baptists (the origins ofGerman, Russian, and other Continental Baptist groups are easily documented.), our origins are shrouded in the mists of time and are known but to God."
''
How conveniant....

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by EaglewingIS4031:
Baptist are Protestant! Baptists developed from the Puritains which were Protestants. The theology followed closely with that of Calvin, Luther and others.

You're correct. Whether we like it or not, we're members of protestantism. Just because we differ thologically from presbyterian type protestants (which is probably the bulk of protestantism) doesn't make us less protestant.

 

[moeowo2]

I don't consider Baptist to be part of Protestants at all...to me the true protestants are those who are a more close theologically to Catholism and a direct branch off of RCC. Like the Lutherans,Presbytirians, and others like them. They (the Lutherans and like them) protested parts of the Catholic faith.

While yes we do "protest" them to a certain extent we weren't a direct branch off the the RCC.

 

[mioque]

"The majority of the world clumps the baptist denomination as being the world's largest protestant group today."
''
We are?
That would make us number 2 after the Catholic Church. To be honest I never looked into it.

 

[GODzThunder]

is the baptist Church truly larger than the greek orthodox? I cannot remember.

 

[rsr]

Technically, no. In practice, yes.

 

[mioque]

Baptist, protestant or not?
To be honest the answer depends on how you seperate the branches of Christianity.

In my university we used the following rough system to carve up all of Christendom into 4 chunks:
One of the most important years in churchhistory is 1054. The schism between the Eastern and the Western Church.
The churches on the Eastern half of the divide are described as Eastern-Orthodox (1).
The church on the Western half of the divide is described as the (Roman) Catholic Church (2).
All groups that are split of from the Western half of the Church after 1054, or that splintered of from groups that seperated from Catholicism after 1054 are called Protestant (3).
All churches that formally never became part of the Church that schismed in 1054 (splitting of during early churchcouncils) are called Oriental-Orthodox. (4).

This system puts baptists clearly in the Protestant corner.
And this for all practical purposes makes sense, because the run of the mill fundamentalist baptist church has much more in common with Lutheranism than with Roman Catholicism, much more in common with Roman Catholicism than with Eastern-Orthodoxy and much more in common with Eastern-Orthodoxy than with Oriental-Orthodoxy.

 

[Comrade]

Baptist is Protestant. Baptist is separate. Why is that? Because some only go back to the Reformation. Most of the large Baptist groups such as the SBC and so on I believe are more of the Protestant type. With our church we are Independent Fundamental. We take our roots from the Anabaptists which did not believe in the Baptism of infants. They go back to the original Greek churches.

 

[mioque]

"We take our roots from the Anabaptists which did not believe in the Baptism of infants. They go back to the original Greek churches. "
''
Menno Simons, former Roman Catholic priest and most influential Anabaptist leader in history, would probably have been quite amazed at your assesment of Anabaptist origins.

 

[Comrade]

I get my information from what I read.