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BAPTIST SUCCESSION

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by 37818, Aug 29, 2022.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Is not in a name or necessary any line of man lead churches. But the sole Apostolic succession of the first century New Testament documents.
     
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  2. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    We believe, by Faith, that what Jesus said about being with His church, always,
    that there is a continual line of HIS churches, WHICH BELIEVED "BAPTIST" DOCTRINE, regardless of the names they were called.

    This link is to Ten NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE PROOFS that
    The kind of church that Jesus built has been on this planet since He first Created and Commissioned them "to go into all the world and preach the Gospel".

    ("Historical" proofs {in posts, below} come very close but are dependent on Secular writers throughout History and they may not be favorable to The Lord, or His churches/
    so, there are "gaps", but filling the "gaps" in the History record is not necessary.)

    Again, We believe, by Faith, that what Jesus said about being with His church, always, that there is a continual line of HIS churches, WHICH BELIEVED "BAPTIST" DOCTRINE, regardless of the names they were called.

    Rosco Brong Sermon, Baptist Perpetuity
     
    #2 Alan Gross, Sep 1, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2022
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    These are links to The Baptist History Notebook (by one of my teachers)
    that gives the HISTORY evidence that there is a continual line of HIS churches,
    WHICH BELIEVED "BAPTIST" DOCTRINE, regardless of the names they were called.

    from Berlin Hisel, Baptist History Notebook.

    Index
    Chapter 1
    Tracing of Baptist History
    1
    An Invisible War 2
    What is Meant by Kingdom 2
    O.T. Trail of Blood 3
    N.T. Trail of Blood 4
    Victims of this War 4



    Chapter 2
    Jesus Establishes His Church
    7
    Christ's Church Built 7
    Identifying Doctrine 7
    Church Government Changed 9
    Big Preachers - Big Churches 10
    Episcopal Corruptions in Government 12
    Preacher Power Corruption 14
    Salvation Changes, Baptismal Regeneration 15
    Infant Baptism 17
    Many Remain True 18



    Chapter 3
    Persecution by The Roman Empire
    20
    Reasons for the Persecution 20
    Different Emperors 22
    How True Churches Fared 22
    Nero, 54-68 B.C. 23
    Trajan, 98-117 B.C. 25
    Septimus Severus 193-211 26
    Decius Trajan, 249-251 28
    Diocletian, 284-316 30
    Terrible Days (Many Martyrs' Crowns) 33
    Days of Strength (Strength through Adversity) 33



    Chapter 4
    The Montanists
    35
    A Word of Caution, (not all who are called Baptist
    are Baptist) 35


    False charges against them, (most of their history
    written by their enemies) 35
    Eusebius, Historical Renderings 36
    Montanists, Origin and Beliefs 38
    Other Historians' accounts:
    D. Benedict 39
    J. T. Christian 40
    H. C. Vedder 41
    T. Armitage 42
    W. A. Jarrel 43
    Final Notes on the Montanists 43

    Chapter 5
    The Novatianists
    45
    Novatian Rupture 46
    Historical Renderings:
    Kurtz 46
    C. L. Gieseler 47
    Origin of Novatianism 48
    Historical Renderings:
    Robert Robinson 48
    J. M. Cramp 50
    Their Doctrines 51
    Their Persecutions 52
    Historical Renderings:
    W. M. Nevins 52
    van Braght 53
    C. H. Spurgeon 54



    Chapter 6
    Constantine The Great
    55
    Leo I and Boniface III 55
    Flavius Valerius Constantinus, A.D. 306-337 56
    His Early Life 57
    His Supposed Conversion 57
    Religion United to the State 59
    Edict of Milan 60
    Changes in the False Churches 63
    Money from the State 63
    Privileges and Immunities of Clergy 64


    Unity Among all Churches 65
    Constantino's Life 68
    Constantine's Baptism 68
    Conclusion 69

    Chapter 7
    The Donatists
    71
    Quote by J. M. Cramp 72
    Identified with Novatians 73
    The Church, Its Structure 73
    Separation of Church and State 74
    Baptism 75
    Donatist Persecution 76
    The Donatists on Persecution 79
    Conclusion 79


     
  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Chapter 8
    Paterins, Puritans, Cathari
    81
    Paterins, (Patarenes) 81
    Etymology of the Name 84
    Paterines were Baptist 85
    Puritans 86
    Cathari 86
    Name Widely Applied 87
    The Catharist Doctrine 88
    The Cathari were Baptists 89



    Chapter 9
    The Paulicians
    91
    Photius (witness of) 91
    Siculus (witness of) 92
    Origin, Doctrine, Persecution 93
    Paulicians were Baptists 97
    Persecuted 98



    Chapter 10
    Development in the Hierarchy, (Roman Catholic)
    100
    The Sign of the Cross 100
    Wax Candles 101
    Mother of God 102



    Purgatory 103
    Origin of Purgatory 104

    Chapter 11
    Further Development in the Hierarchy,
    (Roman Catholic)
    106
    List of Heresies (45 Listed) 106
    Extreme Unction 109
    Baptism of Bells 109
    Transubstantiation 110
    A Roman Miracle? 110
    Catholic Church Councils Listed 112
    Roman Catholic & Greek Orthodox 114



    Chapter 12
    Petrobrusians
    116
    Peter de Bruys 116
    Their Doctrine 117
    Augustus Neander, (Quoted) 117
    Peter de Bruys was a Baptist 118
    Information Source 119
    Persecution 120



    Chapter 13
    The Henricians
    121
    Description of Henry 121
    Henry in Mans 122
    St. Bernard's Account of Henry's Influence 123
    Henry was a Baptist 124
    Historians say Henricians were Baptists 126
    Persecution 126



    Chapter 14
    The Arnoldists
    128
    Orchard's Sketch of Arnold of Brescia 128
    Was Arnold a Baptist? 130
    Persecuted, Arnold's Martyrdom and Doctrine 131



    Chapter 15
    The Waldenses
    134
    Their Name 134



    Their Antiquity 134
    Historical Testimony 136
    Waldenses by Various Names 137
    Another Word on their Origin 138
    Conclusion 140

    Chapter 16
    The Waldenses Continued
    142
    Waldenses Not Protestants 142
    Their View on "Antichrist" 143
    A Confession of Their Faith, (14 Articles) 144
    What the Historians Say 148



    Chapter 17
    The Waldenses Concluded
    150
    Milton's Poem 150
    Loss of Houses and Goods 151
    Everywhere Persecuted 151
    Persecuted by the Crusaders 152



    Chapter 18
    The Albigenses
    157
    Origin 157
    Their Doctrine 157
    Their Persecutions 160
    A Bright Light in Dark Times 162



    Chapter 19
    The Ana-Baptists
    166
    Mosheim's Account 166
    Depths of Their Antiquity 168
    Ana-Baptist Ancestors 169
    Waldenses were Ana-Baptists 170
    Ana-Baptist Beliefs 171



    Chapter 20
    The Bogomils
    173
    Their Locations 173
    Agreed with the Cathari 174



    Antiquity of the Bogomils 175
    Charges Against Them 176
    Quote from J. T. Christian 177
    Their Persecution 178

    Chapter 21
    The Lollards
    179
    Origin of the Lollards 179
    Walter Lollard 180
    Spurgeon in Connection with the Lollards 181
    Their Doctrines 183
    Their Persecutions 184



    Chapter 22
    The Bohemian & Moravian Brethren
    188
    Description of the Land 188
    The Gospel in Bohemia 188
    Peter Waldo 189
    Called "Waldensians" 190
    John Huss 190
    Robert Robinson 192
    Two Classes of Brethren 192
    Their Persecution 192



    Chapter 23
    The Picards & Beghards
    195
    Picards or Pickard 195
    Bohemia 196
    Maximillian II 196
    Doctrine of the Picards 196
    The Beghards 198
    The Name 199
    Conclusion 199



    Chapter 24
    Ana-Baptists and the Reformation
    201
    God's Overruling Providence 202
    The Good Doesn't Last 202
    Illustrations of Reform Doctrine 203
    Ana-Baptist Doctrine, Its Antiquity 204



    Church Truth 205
    Conclusion 206

    Chapter 25
    Ana-Baptists and the Reformation Continued
    209
    Christianity not a Culture 209
    Constantine 210
    The Reformation Continues 210
    Same Problems 210
    Religious Force 211
    Luther's Choice 212
    Church Requirements 212
    Salvation by Faith Alone 213
    Non-Public Worship 214



    Chapter 26
    Ana-Baptist and the Reformation Concluded
    216
    The Peace between Catholics and Reformers 216
    The Peace of Augsburg (1555) 216
    The Peace of Westphalia (1648) 217
    Lutheran Persecution 217
    Luther, A Persecutor 218
    Death Warrants 219
    John Calvin, A Persecutor 220
    The Reformers all Alike 221
    Conclusion 222



    Chapter 27
    The Ana-Baptists of Munster
    223
    W. A. Jarrel, Quote of their Diversity 223
    The Munster Disorders 224
    Common Sense, (not Ana-Baptist of the Ordinary
    Sort) 226
    Ana-Baptists Denial 226
    Martyr's Testimony, (Condemnation of the Acts
    Committed at Munster) 227
    Non-Baptist Vindication 228
    Conclusion 229



    Chapter 28
    The Welsh Baptists
    231
    The Gospel of Wales 231
    Concerning Paul 231
    Claudia, (Princess of Wales, Convert of Paul?)232
    Baptists Alone 233
    Were Ancient World Christians Baptist? 235
    David Benedict's Quote concerning 236
    Conclusion 237


    Please note the enormous:
    Bibliography 239


    Waldensian Confessions of Faith
    Confession of 1120
    247
     
    #4 Alan Gross, Sep 1, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2022
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    is unbiblical as it completely misunderstands the meaning of a church.

    Churches are founded on Jesus Christ - not an Apostle - not another church.

    A people hears the gospel. Out of these people some are saved. They form a congregation. They are no less a church than the New Testament age churches.

    What is more miraculous and interesting than the fiction of Apostolic succession is the actual church and how different congregations, often holding different doctrines (but the same gospel) will be made to stand. Unfortunately many are more concerned with judging servants of Another, but He will make them stand because they are His churches.
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    This is a list of the "8 Baptist Doctrines" a church that Jesus Built will hold and be shown to stand for.

    from:
    "Christ's Church Built

    "Doing this, we must begin with the church which Jesus built and observe how Satan sought to corrupt it from within which resulted in a separation by the pure churches from the corrupt churches.

    "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,
    and upon this rock I will build My church:
    and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"
    (Matthew 16:18).

    The word "church" means assembly. The Lord said He would build "His" (My) church.
    This was to distinguish it from all other kinds of assemblies.
    He built His "kind" of assembly.
    That which distinguishes His from all the rest are the doctrines He gave to it.
    Those doctrinal peculiarities make it His kind of church.

    What are those marks or doctrinal peculiarities?
    Dr. J. R. Graves in his book "Old Landmarkism" lists seven.
    Dr. Clarence Walker, in his introduction to the "Trail of Blood" (page 5) lists seven.
    Dr. D. B. Ray, in his "Baptist Succession"

    [p. 8]
    lists seven. To these could be added or subtracted,
    depending on the historian and what his purpose might be.

    Where one would list two doctrines under one head the next may list them separately.

    I will list eight but treat primarily three in this Notebook.


    (1) The church's Head and Founder is Jesus Christ
    (Matthew 16:18; Colossians 1:18).


    (2) Its only rule of faith and practice is the Bible
    (II Timothy 3:15-17).


    (3) Its members are to be only saved people
    (Acts 2:41).


    (4) Its government is congregational
    (Acts 1:23-26 - equality).


    (5) Its teaching on salvation is that it is by grace
    (Ephesians 2:8-9).


    (6) It has but two ordinances; Baptism and the Lord's Supper,
    and these are symbolic
    (Matthew 28:19-20; I Corinthians 11:24).


    (7) Its commission is inclusive
    (Matthew 28:16-20).


    (8) It is independent
    (Matthew 16:19; Matthew 22:21).


    "Wherever, in history, in whatever age,
    you find churches teaching these doctrines,
    you have a Baptist church, no matter what name it may go by.


    "It matters not if we cannot, from church to church, trace it back
    to the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem.
    The succession is there but records may hinder or stop our search.
    What it teaches is the important thing.
    Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church
    so He guaranteed perpetuity."
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is based on a New Testament document. I am thinking of the Apostle Matthew's account.
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I was thinking of Matthew 16.
     
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That being from the New Testament document attributed to the Apostle Matthew.
     
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  10. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    That's Revisionist history
     
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