1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured BARNABAS. A. D. 70, on ORIGINAL SIN & THE IMPOTENCE OF MAN’S FREE WILL.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Alan Gross, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    206
    Faith:
    Baptist

    BARNABAS. A. D. 70.

    BARNABAS in his Epistle has a passage which sets forth the corruption and weakness of the heart of man before the grace of God is implanted, insomuch that it stands in need of being rebuilt, new made, and created again;

    it runs thus: “How shall the temple be built in the name of the Lord?

    Learn; before we believed in
    God, the habitation of our heart was phtharton kai asthenes, corrupt and weak,’ as a temple truly built with hands;

    because it was a house
    full of idolatry, and idolatry was the house of devils, by doing what was contrary to God.

    It shall be built in the name of the Lord. Attend, that the temple of the Lord may be built glorious. How?

    Learn; receiving the remission of sins, and hoping in the name of the Lord, we become new, being created again, as at the beginning.”
     
  2. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You’ve managed to pull something out of Barnabus that he wasn’t obviously saying.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    206
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You Must Be Born Again.

    That is what Barnabus says.

    Jesus Said that, too.

    There is a REASON the soul of man MUST BE RE-CREATED, RE-GENERATED, MADE ALIVE.

    IT IS BECAUSE IT IS DEAD, AS BARNABUS SAID, in A.D. 70.

    Learn; "...receiving the remission of sins, and hoping in the name of the Lord, we become new, being created again, as at the beginning.”
     
  4. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He’s not telling people to wait until they receive something from the Lord, he’s telling them that the remission of sins is already available, and they need to hope in the name of the Lord, and He will make them new.

    Are you seriously wanting to read the text the opposite of what was written?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    206
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
  6. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, and how does that negate what I said and make the Barnabas text say the opposite of how it appears to read?
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    206
    Faith:
    Baptist

    "being created again"

    BARNABAS in his Epistle has a passage which sets forth the corruption and weakness of the heart of man before the grace of God is implanted, insomuch that it stands in need of being rebuilt, new made, and created again;

    "being created again"

    The lost sinner Must BE Born Again.

    The Un-Re-Created soul is lost and hopeless.

    That Un-Re-Created soul that is lost and hopeless must be convicted that their soul is Un-Re-Created, lost, and hopeless, or they have nothing to Repent of.

     
  8. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Baptist

    I don’t have any problem with what you written in this post, except that they don’t need to be convicted of anything in order to have something to repent of, they just don’t know they need to repent without that conviction, which we both recognize comes from the Holy Spirit.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    206
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lost souls must be lost before they can be Saved.
     
  10. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I guess you’re being consistent, as you also believe saved souls must be saved before they can be saved.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    206
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Absolutely.

    The Human soul can not respond to The Moral Admonitions of God, unless the primary moral convictions of man coincide with Conscience and Moral Judgment within The Divine Mind.

    The Infinite Mind could be Apprehended by the finite, if the finite were sinless and immutable.

    The Elect Angels are finite, because they were Created and have a beginning.

    They are Immortal, because God Chose for them to be.

    They remain in a sinless and immutable existence.

    If they were able to change and decided to disobey God, they would Fall Forever, as Adam did.

    The Fallen, lost Adam, can no longer Apprehend GOD, Who is SPIRIT, because his primary moral convictions are now without God, sinful, Spiritually Dead and Helpless.

    Adam and his offspring no longer can coincide with Conscience and Moral Judgment within The Divine Mind, because their primary moral convictions are......

    ......NOT Perfect and Holy.

    "Lost souls must be lost before they can be Saved". ABSOLUTELY.

    "...saved souls must be saved before they can be saved". ABSOLUTELY.

    That is God's Message Contained in The Bible and NOT man's ideas developed from The Words of God, using their lack of Perfection and Holiness.

    When BARNABAS wrote, in A. D. 70,

    "Learn; receiving the remission of sins, and hoping in the name of the Lord, we become new, being created again, as at the beginning.”

    He wasn't saying that you put your socks over your shoes when one refers to "Putting their Shoes and Socks on".

    The chronological placement of the words in the sentence do not govern the content.

    If I, "turn on the light bulb, by flicking the switch", did the light bulb come on first?

    The same is with Salvation.

    I can 'say', "I chose, believed, prayed, had faith", etc., etc., but unless God took the Dead Light Bulb, of my Adamic Nature, and HE, GOD, Flicks the Switch; their will be no Salvation.

    There has been no "Re-Generation", as Barnabas mentioned.

    "hoping in the name of the Lord, we become new, being created again, as at the beginning.”

    The Wonder Working Power of The Balm of Gilead Must Turn DARKNESS to LIGHT and Make the blind to See.
     
  12. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You’ve made a lot of statements you have little evidence for, except your own presuppositions, which are not worthy of presenting publicly without a more reliable source.

    But even the other evidence you presented, from the gospel of Barnabas, speaks against your position, as you admitted, because you have to justify changing the order of the text.

    If you’re that desperate for evidence for your position, maybe you should rethink your position.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    206
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Turn all that around, where it can do some good.

    Barnabas is one of dozens in the first few Centuries that are recorded as believing Jesus Christ, and all the Old Testament and New Testament saints, regarding Total Depravity.

    Total Depravity is Taught from Genesis to Revelation, in almost every Chapter.

    Calvin didn't write The Bible.

    God Did.

    Adam died the Day he ate of The Tree of Knowledge.

    The 'Progressives', in the news, HAVE MISSED A FINE CHANCE to 'EVOLVE', because they are liars, thieves, rapists, and murderers.

    They were born that way and have not been reborn.

    They did not BECOME liars, thieves, rapists, and murderers, by their actions.

    They have lied, stolen, raped, and murdered BECAUSE THEY ARE: liars, thieves, rapists, and murderers, IN THEIR NATURAL ESTATE, as SPIRITUALLY DEAD, LOST SOULS.


    Typical, naturally born, children of Adam, born,
    as Seth was; in THE IMAGE of ADAM.

    "And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth." Genesis 5:3
     
  14. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I guess you’re also ok with salvation by works, as Barnabas said this: This is the way of life, either labouring by means of the word and proceeding to exhort, and practising to save the soul by the word, or thou shalt work by thy hands for the redemption of thy sins.
     
  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    206
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Salvation is by WORKS.

    The Eternal Plan and WORKS Accomplished by Jesus Christ.

    The Work of Jesus Christ in The Accomplishment of His Obedience in The ONE Eternal Covenant of Grace, by His Virgin Birth, Perfect Life, Death, Burial, and Resurrection,

    ...is ADMINISTERED to the soul of the lost individual, by The Instrumentality of The Eternal Word of God, Made Effectual, by The Holy Spirit of God.

    Post #62, by iconoclast, in
    The Covenant of Redemption post
    with my re-emphasis on The Word and The Spirit's Instrumentality in the Salvation of the Predestinated, Elect.

    1thess.;
    4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

    5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

    6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

    2thess;
    12
    That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
    13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing,
    because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us,
    ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God,

    which effectually worketh
    also in you that believe.
    ...

    Do the board members know of The Word and The Spirit's Instrumentality in the Salvation of the Predestinated, Elect?

    ...

    Romans 4:10 b,c;
    "and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?"

    (=THE ETERNAL WORD of GOD, that Could BE USED by The HOLY SPIRIT to CONVICT their soul of their sins AND POINT THEM TO THE ETERNAL WORK of SALVATION, by JESUS CHRIST, THE SAVIOR)


    "and how shall they hear"

    (=THE ETERNAL WORD of GOD, that Could BE USED by The HOLY SPIRIT to CONVICT their soul of their sins AND POINT THEM TO THE ETERNAL WORK of SALVATION, by JESUS CHRIST, THE SAVIOR)

    "without a preacher?"

    One of those preachers, WHO PREACHED THE ETERNAL WORD of GOD, that Could BE USED by The HOLY SPIRIT to CONVICT their soul of their sins AND POINT THEM TO THE ETERNAL WORK of SALVATION, by JESUS CHRIST, THE SAVIOR, as you quoted, was Barnabas, in A.D. 70.

     
    #15 Alan Gross, Jul 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  16. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Obviously that’s not what Barnabas was saying.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    206
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What the flesh ever.
     
  18. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That’s a winner post, if I ever saw one! Calvinism at its finest!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    206
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Of His Own Will Begat He us with The Word of Truth..." James 1:18a

    The Spirit of God is a Component of Calvinism and The Bible.

    You have come across the principal determinant of the alleged 'debate', between the flesh ("Free Will" that is free to fly across The Atlantic, but FALLS SHORT of that AND THE GLORY of GOD) and The Spirit ( "Of His Own Will").

    The flesh profits nothing.

    There is no 'debate'.
     
  20. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm surprised to see that you subserve the Spirit of God to Calvin.

    Free will is not the same thing as "the flesh". Free will is merely a statement of how God made us. Free will is merely a necessity for relationship. Free will is a component of worship.

    The flesh is sinful. Of itself, there's no hope. All flesh is destined to die. But Jesus Christ redeemed the flesh, and will make it incorruptible. He came back to life in a fleshly body. He rose into heaven in a fleshly body. Job expected to see His savior with his own eyes (fleshly body parts).

    It won't stay the same, but we will one day put on an incorruptible body, similar to Jesus's after His resurrection. And none of the gospel writers expressed any observation of how His body composition was different than ours.

    "Of His own will"? Yes, absolutely God, of His own will, sent Jesus to die in our place so that we will live in His place. And thus He begat us in the word of truth. Not by some special secret something that happens to those God decides He wants to rescue out of the mass of humans destined for destruction.

    We are a firstfruits--the part your ellipsis left out. What are we a firstfruits of?? It seems we are a firstfruits of the redemption of "creatures". What other creatures is James referring to?
     
Loading...