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Becareful of "soul winners"

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by agedman, Dec 6, 2011.

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  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I think the term, "soul winner or soul winning," is problematic.

    The believer is called to be a witness.

    The believers are to carry the Word, bear witness of the work of Christ in our own living, and contend for the faith.

    However, I have yet to meet a person who has the capability to win a soul even though I have heard the term used by hundreds.

    Winning the soul is reserved in total for God and His glory.

    In fact the only "winning" that Paul desired was winning Christ.

    I think the OP title gathers attention to a problem of the puffed up as I described poorly in the opening remarks and slightly better in the clarification.
     
    #21 agedman, Dec 7, 2011
  2. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Pro 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
     
    #22 mandym, Dec 7, 2011
  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Ah, you beat me to it!
     
    #23 InTheLight, Dec 7, 2011
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Luke 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.​

    We all can pray, most can give, a few of His choosing will go forth to labor and reap in His harvest.​

    HankD​
     
    #24 HankD, Dec 7, 2011
  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    The word "winneth" cares a different connotation than the typical "soul winner" would apply.

    It means such as one who draws, carries away, takes, or seizes.

    The idea is one who is not the "winner" in the sense of personally gaining the victory, but one who is drawing away a soul from the unrighteous walk.

    Jude said the same thing when he stated, "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. (the fruit of the tree of righteousness is a tree of life)
    And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. (see the phrase "pulling them out"- and he that draws them out, carries them away, takes or seizes them out of the fire is wise.)
     
    #25 agedman, Dec 7, 2011
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I agree that that is the way of the current typical believer.

    However that is not the commission as Christ quested the believers.

    ALL are to be witnesses.
     
    #26 agedman, Dec 7, 2011
  7. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    I personally am not a big fan of using the term 'soul-winning'. I much prefer the term 'witness' or 'witnessing'. But that's just me.
     
    #27 Mexdeaf, Dec 7, 2011
  8. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Which is exactly how it is used commonly.
     
    #28 mandym, Dec 7, 2011
  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I don't know if you run in the same circles that I do/did, but the term was not used in that sense.

    Rather, it was used to refer to a "great soulwinner" or a "great man of God because look at the number of souls saved" ...

    I remember sitting in the evening with some new believer that was grieving that they didn't seem to have God's power on their life like ...

    Often I had to explain that our job was not to win but to present, to carry the gospel and to plead with the lost. The winning was all up to God.

    We are called to be witnesses.

    Like yesterday, I happened to have to have more than a bank teller to conduct business, and during the conversation both the bank officer and I rejoiced finding we were both believers. He was from Asian background and we had a wonderful time proclaiming the gospel. I wonder who around us was listening in and what the Word might accomplish because we both were about the master's business.
     
    #29 agedman, Dec 7, 2011
  10. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    The issue is not a word issue it is a heart issue and banning the word soul-winner is not the resolution and an over reaction.
     
    #30 mandym, Dec 7, 2011
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You're not exegeting right. Prov. 11:30 is Hebrew poetry, which is parallelism. In this case, the same thing is stated twice, therefore "The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life" means the same as "he that winneth souls is wise." Therefore, to win souls in this context means to bring the word of life to someone. (And there was evangelism in the OT. See Ps. 96.)

    Again, Daniel 12:3 says, "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever." Soul winning means turning people to righteousness. So though of course the soul winner does not save a person, which is God's job, but he is the human instrument to win someone to Christ--that is, present the gospel in an understandable way so that God the Holy Spirit works in someone's heart to convict and save them (Rom. 10:14-15).

    And by the way, this is not a matter of Calvinism vs. Arminianism. I've already given approving quotes from two leading Calvinists who use the term "soul-winning" positively.
     
    #31 John of Japan, Dec 7, 2011
  12. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Not to derail the thread, but isn't that just the coolest thing? I can't tell you how many times I meet someone and we end up talking about the Lord, even though I've never seen them before in my life. God is good!
     
    #32 Amy.G, Dec 7, 2011
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Oh of course, that's a given.

    HankD
     
    #33 HankD, Dec 7, 2011
  14. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

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    I agree with your post.

    I think that nowadays "success" is judged by NUMBERS in the church. If we're not careful, salvations or baptisms or church memberships can become like notches on a belt, where we start to pride ourselves or get discouraged based on "how many." We may never know how many come to Christ as a result of our witness, but as long as we are faithful, God will bless us, and His word does not return void.
     
    #34 abcgrad94, Dec 7, 2011
  15. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Two famous Baptist missionaries--Adoniram and Ann Judson--worked in Burma for seven years before they baptized their first convert.

    Incidentally, theirs is a fascinating story. They went to Burma as Congregationalist missionaries, but during their trip they revisited the question of baptism. They changed their views and became Baptists. Oh, and they were immersed in Calcutta.
     
    #35 Tom Butler, Dec 7, 2011
  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    The offering of the OP was based on people being deceived into aligning themselves with frauds. A warning for any who would validate a person or ministry because they place importance or a sign of God's blessing by the enlarged numbers of those attending or the success rate of some great "soul winner."

    I don't care at all if a missionary labors on the field his whole life and never sees a soul saved as long as he is the faithful witness. For it is God that calls and He gives the increase as He determines.

    I don't care if a preacher has the smallest church in town as long as He remains faithful to the duty as the witness God called.

    I desired to lay out a general warning about the enemy making a larger and larger groupings of deceived and calling it church. I was hoping to tease the forum folk to greater insight of the fraudulent and more hope and dedication to the duty call of Christ.

    Am I against witnessing? - not at all!

    Am I against groups going out in witnessing teams? - not at all!

    Do I consider that it is a sign of validity and authority as a greater "blessed by God soul winner" because someone is more skilled at presenting the witness, in a more skillful way than some other person, so that the former sees more results? - not at all!

    Every believer - witness has purpose and meaning!

    Paul said it this way:

    "I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that plants any thing, neither he that waters; but God that gives the increase.

    Now he that plants and he that waters are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are laborers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building."
     
    #36 agedman, Dec 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2011
  17. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    What does all that mean? :confused:
     
    #37 freeatlast, Dec 8, 2011
  18. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

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    I am reminded of the parable of the sower. If one sows on rocky ground, and another on fertile, who did the more work? I would say that neither did. Who has the greater reward? I would pose that it might just be possible that the sower of the stony ground gets a greater reward, simply because he had to face more discouragement and had to keep in there without outward showing of his labor.
     
    #38 Sapper Woody, Dec 8, 2011
  19. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    The missing factor in this true story is that Judson had to learn the language on his own. He had to write his own grammar book and dictionary. So his story is more analogous to a modern missionary to a tribal people who has to start from scratch with the language and the culture. In that case it can easily take seven years for the first person to be saved. But for a missionary to almost any established nation in the 21st century to take seven years to see someone saved is another issue.
     
    #39 John of Japan, Dec 8, 2011
  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    My wife and I sponsered for over 3 years in japan a missionary for Campus Crusade for Christ...

    he spent 3 years there, and was left to pursue his training to become a state trooper in Colorado!

    During his time there, had 7 converts to Christ, but the Lord only knows how fruitful his ministry was there!

    he always said that Japan was one tough "nut" to crack by God, as his proverb was that in Japan the nail sticking out from the board will get pounded back in... Think meant group mentality in play big time!
     
    #40 JesusFan, Dec 9, 2011
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