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Between the Crucifixion and the Resurrection

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Tom Bryant, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Now, when you say 'impression' are you meaning like a fingerprint left behind type impression, or more like a footprint impression in the ground that can used to create a mold of the foot. :laugh:

    That is one view that many hold to, yes. You can include me in that group as well.

    That place no longer exists because the reason for it's existance no longer exists.
     
  2. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    Part of the issue with that passage is that verse 20 says that Jesus preached to the spirits who were disobedient. Is that the only thing He did? Ephesians 4 seems to teach that he descended and 'led captivity captive'. Where did He lead them?

    I would tend to believe that he preached to those who were disobedient then went to the other side and brought those believers into heaven with Him.

    My purpose for this was just to seek various views of that 3 day period.
     
  3. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Paraniod??

    Hey!! Even though you are paranoid, just remember that most everyone really is out to get you!! :D

    Ed
     
  4. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    My own conclusion is that he proclaimed his victory to the disobedient, on the one hand, and he led the captive saints to heaven, on the other hand.
     
  5. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    Maybe "How do you like me now?" :tongue3:

    I would agree.
     
  6. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I believe He put His newfound carpenter trade to work and began building the places He promised us :)
     
  7. rjprince

    rjprince Active Member

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    When you couple 1Pet 3:18 w/ 2Pet 2:4-6 and Jude 1:6-7 it is a little bit difficult to support the second view that Marcia presented that Jesus (in spirit) preached to the disobedient in Noah's Day.



    Please notice that it does not say that Christ preached in Noah's day, it says that the spirits were disobedient in Noah's day.


    As far as the timing of the "leading captivity" there is no kind of time reference in the context that would define the event as occurring between the crucifixion and the resurrection.


    Didn't see where anyone mentioned Matt 27:52...

    RJP
     
  8. rjprince

    rjprince Active Member

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    Oh, BTW, the above passages also make it difficult to sustain the idea that Christ preached to the wicked dead. It seems evident that He preached to disobedient angels from a comparison of the passages.


    "Tarturus" is not the abode of the wicked dead. It is the abode of fallen angels who seem to have committed an especially reprehensible offense. The "legion" that Jesus cast out of the demoniac of Gadara feared that Jesus would command them to go into the abyss (abussos). That the abyss is used to describe the place of confinement for fallen angels seems indicated from the use of the word in the other places (Re 9:1,2,11 11:7 17:8 20:1,3).

    RJP
     
  9. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    This is what happens when you combine Greek mythology with Jewish literature. Makes no sense. Tarterus is a deity in charge of the place of the dead. Doesn't have baring on Jewish literature unless you're comparing documents from the Selucid era.
     
  10. Tater77

    Tater77 New Member

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    In Greek Mythology , isn't Tartarus the prison of the Titans? I am guessing that Peter used the word because it was an existing word for a divine prison.

    Edit: Just looked up some info. It was also a place of punishment for the wicked similar to Hell in Greek myths. So Peter might have chosen this word to indicate a prison in Hell?
     
    #30 Tater77, Mar 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2009
  11. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Actually yes. Its both a deity and a place. Kind of like Hades.
     
  12. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    I do not think Christ went and preached to the spirits in prison during the time between the crucifixion and the resurrection.

    I lean towards the idea that the 1 Peter passage has in view that Christ in spirit preached through Noah. To the disobedient people of his generation. Here is why:

    1. Peter has already made reference to the fact that the spirit of Christ in the prophets that ministered through them. So we know at least that Christ was in some OT saints preaching through them. (1 Peter 1:10-11) Furthermore, vs 18 specifically states that it was by the Spirit that Christ preached.

    2. It makes no sense whatsoever to preach to sinners already in torment because they have no hope of escaping that place.

    3. Unless I am mistaken (and I may be) the grammatical idea of vs. 19 is that these spirits are now in prison, but at one time where not; that time being the days of Noah. Verse 20 mentions that God was long suffering in the days of now as Noah faithfully declared the truth. Yet these men remained disobedient and consequently perished in the flood.

    4. The context supports this idea as well. Peter is speaking to Christians facing terrible persecution. He is giving them encouragements to suffer for doing good. One being that Christ suffered as well. Another being this point about the days of Noah. Peter is specifically citing Noah as an illustration. Noah remained faithful, though being mocked and rejected, therefore this believers should be like Noah.

    I do realize that many wise and learned people believe that Christ went to hell and preached to spirits there. That is fine by me, I just don´t see that in this passage based on the overall context of Peter's first letter.
     
  13. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Gill has the same view as the NET Bible and my pastor:
    http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/1peter/gill/1peter3.htm
     
  14. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Jamieson, Faussett and Brown go into it in more detail, if you want to click on the link and get the full explanation:


    http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/1peter/jfb/1peter3.htm
     
  15. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    On the Eph. 4 passage, this is saying that Jesus descended to earth to incarnate. Wesley says this descent is to the womb or the grave:
    http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/ephesians/wesley/ephesians4.htm

    From the same site, Gill has this view:


    Jamieson, Faussett, and Brown:


    None of the commentators I read here thinks the Eph. 4 passage has anything to do with Jesus going to Hades or Sheol to proclaim anything or lead anyone out. Nor do I see this in the context of Eph. 4.
     
  16. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Just getting to this thread so forgive me if I'm dealing with old stuff.

    But Jesus did descend - from heaven to earth. He not only descended to earth but the "lower parts of the earth" which would point to the grave. Hell/hades is not the lower parts of the earth. It is not in the earth at all.

    ETA - I see this has been covered. Continue on. :D
     
    #36 annsni, Mar 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2009
  17. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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  18. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Nor I. I wasn't swayed by Gill or anyone. In fact, I just found that today - had never read it before.

    I read the passage many times and thought about it. I took what others thought into account. This is what I do with difficult passages (dare we say Gen. 6? -- shhhh....), and then I decide. Or I say I'm not sure.
     
  19. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Well, let's see. From the best I am able to determine, it appears that Allan, rjprince, Tom Bryant, and TCGreek, believe about the same "fairy tale" as I do. And it also appears that Tater77 and Thinkingstuff may not be that far removed from the same position I hold, or are at least considering it.

    I can consider that as being with pretty good company, in this. :thumbsup:

    Here are a couple of posts of mine from a little over a year ago, which expand on this, a bit, including several references.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1158697&postcount=63

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1159403&postcount=69

    I have made several others on this subject, but these should serve to suffice in showing a little greater detail about what I believe Scripture teaches about this subject, I think.

    Ed
     
  20. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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