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Bible translation is a business

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by BobinKy, Sep 2, 2010.

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  1. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Then don't buy them.:thumbs:
     
  2. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    That's a very sensible answer, but that doesn't negate that fact that these multitudes of English translations are published to make money, not make the Word of God clearer. It is obvious that they do not make the scriptures clearer, there are posts on this forum all the time debating which translation is more accurate.

    I could show you a thread where two regulars here go on for pages arguing about their opinions on which translations are better or more accurate.
     
    #42 Winman, Sep 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2010
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    So, I have to ask, was the KJT published in 1611 to fill the king's coffers since there were already 4-5 excellent English translations where the word of God was very clear?

    Are all translations a business? The KJT certainly brought in revenue for King James, and the KJV publishers today still do quite well for themselves. Not everyone gives them away free.
     
  4. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Oh, I am sure they did make money selling the KJB and should. A workman should be paid for their labor and materials. But I do not believe for a second that was their primary motivation.

    I know Wiki is not the best source for information on ANY subject, but here is what they said concerning the motivation behind the KJB.

    So, it was not about money at all.
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    But it is the motivation for every other translation?
     
  6. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Who said that? I already said that when people translate into other languages as John of Japan said, the motivation is to reach the world for Christ.

    But really, 200 versions in English? Now, I don't know that number for a fact, but I do recall seeing it before. Here are English versions for the 20th century alone.

    Continued...
     
  7. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Continued from previous post

    Continued....
     
  8. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Continued from previous post

    Continued...
     
  9. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Continued from previous post

    Continued...
     
  10. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Continued from previous post

    This is the 20th century ALONE. If this doesn't demonstrate how foolish multitudes of translations are, then there is no possible way to show you.
     
  11. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    No - Some of them do but not all of them.

    Having 5 churches in a town shows how foolish multitudes of churches are - if you go by your argument.

    What about having thousands of DIFFERENT manuscripts for the Bible? Isn't that foolish as well? None of them are identical. So is it foolish?
     
  12. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    It is because people do not know the Word of God that we have so many denominations. And one reason they do not know the Word of God is because of the multiplicity of Bible versions.

    Phil 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

    Here Paul speaks of being of likeminded, of one accord, and of one mind. If you have 100 people in your church, everyone with a different version of scripture, it's going to be pretty impossible to be likeminded, of one accord, and of one mind.

    Like I said, if that long list of 20th century versions doesn't illuminate a serious problem, there is no way to reach you.
     
  13. jbh28

    jbh28 Active Member

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    That and it's because people interpret things differently. There's some of both. Also, the multiplicity of Bible versions isn't the cause of denominations. The different denominations were all out before even the KJV was made. Maybe the KJV caused the different denominations. :rolleyes:
    Maybe in your extreme example, but not in reality. I'm in one accord with those that have a different version from me at church.
    Are you saying there are too many different translations? Then I would agree with you. But that doesn't mean I think there should only be one. I'm thankful for the abundance of translations that we have as long as the translation is faithful to the Word of God.
     
    #53 jbh28, Sep 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2010
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I disagree that it is a lack of knowledge of the Word of God that we have so many CHURCHES. I'm not speaking of denominations because they don't mean diddly to me. Within our county, there are hundreds of solid Bible teaching churches that I would be pleased to be a part of and I know of a good number of them within 10 miles of my own church. So should we just ditch some of them because there are too many?

    As for saying that having a different version will mean that everyone is not of one accord, you must surround yourself with idiots. In our church, I see at least (let me think: KJV, NASB, NIV, ESV, NIRv, Amplified, Living Bible, 3 different deaf Bibles, Spanish bibles, Korean Bibles, what I think is a Russian Bible, Japanese Bible, Chinese Bible, Bibles in Hebrew and Greek ... I think that's all I can think of that I've personally seen there) 16 different Bibles and I have not seen any issue stemming from that. I read my ESV while my pastor reads from his KJV or NIV and I have no problems following along. It took 10 minutes to explain to our new Chinese attendees (who are coming to our church through the ministry of two graduate school professors who want to reach their own Chinese nationals who are attending graduate school here in the US) about Bible translations and the idea of there being differences in the way each says something but not in the meaning of what they say. Why is it that they got it that quickly and you don't? Maybe you should come to our Essentials of the Christian Life class to learn. :)
     
  15. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I said the reason there are so many denominations is because people do not know the word of God. The reason there are Jehovah's Witnesses is because they don't properly understand the Word of God, same with the Mormons. Both of these denominations started when basically there was only the KJB.

    [off topic]
    And I would ask you, if you admit that 200+ different versions is bad, then how many different versions are good? And who chooses and picks which are the acceptable versions in your church?
     
    #55 Winman, Sep 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2010
  16. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Winman, your first sentence is accurate, but not for the reason of multiple translations. It is because they do not pick up the translations they have and study them. They do not take free online Bible classes and then compare it to their Bible to see if the teacher is telling the truth. We churches don't do Bible Studies anymore and work with new technologies like power-point to make them interesting to a younger generation used to fast and high-tech television and multi-media they work with. We are afraid we will break with tradition while the churches throughout history are the ones who do continue to survive. As long as we follow the Bible, in whatever translation we can understand and we know is a mainstream good translation we are improving communications of the "word" or in more modern English "The Message" (and I am not referring to a translation on the market by the same name, I feel it is a very poor recommendation.) You can be discerning.

    My training at work is done high speed and over the internet and is made very interesting. How many of our churches spend the time to do this. Most of the ones I have seen are the Charismatic churches with young ministers who have lots of energy and training from huge Bible colleges and they own their churches so they don't spend time with politics, you go or you don't. While many churches sit back with the same old books, the same old organ, the same old hard seats and say: "I wonder why people visit, but never come back."

    Am I saying we serve beer to get people to come----ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!,

    but what keeps us from using a Bible the children can read and a Screen and projector with some interesting slides teaching verses and maybe even comparing some different versions on those screens so people can understand them.

    I have seen pastors who will claim to be KJV preferred and they will read a scripture out of the KJV and low and behold turn right around and say: "Now that means--" and they quote from a newer version, mostly the NIV. This happens because the old timers don't want to change and they will fire the preacher in a heartbeat if he adds a hymn written since 1906, or gets rid of the old organ nobody can play or repair and replaces it with an electronic keyboard.

    This was off the subject which I believe is are the publishers business?

    Yes, but, they could also be running their machines to print porno and probably make a lot more money.

    Nobody is perfect and I'm one of those sinners that God has forgiven for the mistakes I make in choosing the field I work in.

    I work in the business of designing bombs for the U. S. ammo, Am I sinning if the user of that bomb uses it in spite and not to protect my freedom? Does that even make sense?

    My point is, we all have our jobs. Do you work in some job that furthers the Message of Jesus' free gift of Salvation to the world and if you don't are you sinning?

    I know a man who works for the electric company, but everybody around hiim knows he is a
    Christian, that he lives like one and that he loves it and he will be happy to share it if someone wants to have what the radiance from his face when he comes in to work and wants to know why he is so happy. Even in the government it is NOT against the law to tell someone about Christ if they ask and the trick is to make them want what you have and that is peace of heart and happiness of soul. You are allowed to tell them what you believe unless they tell you to be quiet and if that happens they would have rejected God anywhere, not just where its politically incorrect to go around preaching all day. You can preach--by your actions. Do they see you reading your Bible at lunch-time or at breaks; hey its a free country. I can have a Bible on my desk just like my neighbor can have a Koran and if i have a Bible, don't think that people aren't watching you.

    I don't buy the multiple translation causing the denominations, because most of those occurred before there were many translations. Many came out of the Catholic background to try to move toward Martin Luther's direction; but, they either went wrong, but some went right. There are definitely no PERFECT churches that God will have to deal with at the end, but as He says in many translations is that "He knows our hearts."

    Is a professor who is well meaning and working his hardest, even though his conclusions may be flawed, but he is trying to research what manuscripts found are the most accurate to the original manuscripts sinning? Even if he takes money to pay his bills with it?
     
  17. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    See, in posting the NIV, you have now lied. You have not put the full verse in there although you did leave in the [fn] which denotes a footnote. When you put in the footnote, you have included the full text. Care to do that?
     
  18. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    from http://www.kjv-only.com/matt5_22.html
     
  19. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I copied and pasted that from the Blue Letter website, and I mentioned the footnotes. I did not lie or mislead in the least.

    But what about the footnotes? I remember when I was a boy and I had a RSV loaded with footnotes that said things like "better manuscripts omit this verse" and the like, and I remember exactly how this affected me. It caused me to be confused, I didn't know if I should believe the footnote or reject it.

    You cannot convince me that footnotes like this make the understanding clearer, they do not, they cause confusion. If "without a cause" should be in Matthew 5:22, then it should be directly shown in the verse, and if "without a cause" should not be in Matthew 5:22, then it should not be in the verse, and it should not be mentioned in a footnote either.

    You are trying to defend the indefensible. Reading scriptures should not be a guessing game.
     
  20. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Bad example Win

    If you understood manuscripts, you would understand that the KJV probably had a copier add to the scripture to clarify it. This occurred quite often and can be proven by finding older manuscripts with verses not present; but, added in manuscripts hand-copied over 500 or more years later.

    Just because it makes sense to you to add that to make it clearer does not mean God said iit and it was in the originals.

    This is Riplinger's argument on just about everything. If you will read the entire bible you will come away with the very same message through and through about your brother. I don't know that God wants you to be angry even if you have cause. Isn't there a scripture on how to deal with your brother with going to him first, up through the church system? But, isn't there also a scripture that says we do not sue a brother? (Meaning another Christian?) Would this refer to cause or not?

    Look at the ending of Mark. It basically cuts off and goes on a tangent that is not found in many older manuscripts. Usually, theology is found more than once in the Bible and Handling snakes and drinking poison was probably not a realistic sign as to whether or not you found true Christians. I may be wrong, it may have been done in Jesus' day or shortly thereafter, but a lot of miracles were done only to show Jesus was truly the Messiah.

    This just doesn't seem to fit and in my opinion could be skipped without any loss of faith on my part. Maybe you need to find some snakes and find out, but I would not advise it. How many people have died because they follow the Bible but refuse to go to a doctor today? Does that mean they don't have enough faith? No, why do we need miracles when we have the Holy Spirit to tug on our hearts to accept the Messiah?

    Now, don't go and say I don't believe in miracles. I spent seven years with my own company trying to survive and every single time we needed material and were short on capital (picked a bad investor---thought we could build after we received orders rather than stocking and quickly shipping even though he would send 250K to a movie company in Los Vegas just because a guy came by and said he was making a Steven Segal STYLE of movie and selling blocks that would be worth millions when it was released---do you think he followed this up with more money when he got a call saying we're just about there but we are running short can you send us another 250K? He claimed to be a Christian, that's another story because money had consumed him. He had 21 mil with half liquid and we needed 100K to build monitors that we could sell to hospitals and return over 500% but the hospitals wouldn't wait----they would overnight it if we had it, but we didn't) With 5K a month usually a week or two late, we survived by stocking certain parts and finally I took a job with the government after 7 years of stress, but we never went hungry and we paid our bills. God took care of us, I am convinced.

    That man stopped us because hospitals wanted our monitors more than our one competators, but the other company sold for 35 million dollars to a bigger company. I went broke. Because of the Bible I do not hate the man who did that. It was probably God keeping me from becoming rich knowing that money would also control me. So, did I have a reason to be mad?

    If someone sticks a gun in your face and you are alone (your family is safe) do you really have a reason to kill him or trust God that it is your time to go home or He will save you. So, my point is, is that a good verse? It doesn't fit with the NT teachings of jesus where he says if someone steals from you give him more. That man who has the gun in your face may see the peace in your heart and you may have planted a seed. I only protect my family as I feel I should. If I were a policeman, carrying a weapon is another story. They are doing a job of protecting those who hired them and if that means deadly force, then that is another story.

    Should our country be strong? Well, I work as an engineer designing ammo transportation so it goes across our highways safely to its destination. We should leave the retaliation up to the government with cause or without cause. By adding cause, the translator, in my opiinion only gave an "out" for those who do feel they can bring retribution on their brother.

    So, the question is, is that in the ORIGINAL manuscripts? I don't know and probably won't until I die, but knowing that many old manuscripts do not have it I am not going to call any brother a fool even if they stick a gun in my face. Maybe its just the time God wants me with him.
     
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