Biblical Marriage

Diane, I am sure you mean well. You say that you abstain from all appearances of evil, are you sure?

As far a being married by covenant there are many states that recognize this as marriage and if the states does, then why can't you?

 

But you have not been given freedom by the government (in most states) to marry without a license. That is not a freedom you have.

The point I keep coming back to is that God ordained the government to make laws and then ordained that we as believers must live by those laws. When you flaunt the law on marriage licenses, you are flaunting the authority of God.

I showed two instances above (that you did not even address) where God's commands do not give you the right to ignore the laws of the government.

There is no such thing as freedom of religion mandated in Scripture. The Israelites wound up in slavery by virtue of population growth. The Pharoah who did not know Joseph became worried about a great number of foreigners living in the land. The Israelites did "give up" any freedoms; they were taken away from them. But that example does not apply here in teh least for 21st century America is far different.

But that is not the point. When the state says "You cannot go and worship as you want" then we will go and worship without their approval because failure to go and worship would be a direct violation. But as I have shown from both Scripture and example, we do not have the right to disregard state laws in the name of religion unless we are required to violate God's command. Such has not been shown to be the case with a marriage license.

 

No... I said:

I sure try to tho Walls. I'd certainly hate for someone to validate their sinful lifestyle or a life without Jesus as their Lord and Savior because they felt they were just as 'good as her and she claims to be a Christian'.

If a state recognizes homosexual unions, will you? PLUS, states recognize common law marriages . Even the term sounds ugly.

The covenant marriages now being touted in many states include legal marriage but just make it harder to divorce.

Because scripture tells us to follow the laws of the land unless they conflict with God's law. A piece of paper, paying taxes, registering births... does not conflict with God's law.

Diane

 

As I have stated before that when God sets aside a people for Himself he does so by covenant. Ge 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

God also expects that the people He makes a covenant with to be in agreement. Ge 31:44
Now therefore come thou, let us make a covenant, I and thou; and let it be for a witness between me and thee.

God also expects that the people keep His wishes. Ge 17:9 And God said unto Abraham,
Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

God also provides a token for His covenants. Ge 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and
it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. Ge 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me
and you.

Based on this I think God wants His people to be known-a seperate and peculiar people. Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

God also gives warning against breaking His covenant. De 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee. Le 26:15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant: 16 I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow
your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

God also has a place in His covenant for His son. Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that
of Abel.

Now God likens His relationship with His people (the church) to that of marriage. Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and
he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the
wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Now if God establishes a covenant with His people and chooses them to be a bride to His
son and seals them through a blood covenant (Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,), wouldn’t that be the standard that God sets for marriage between man and woman?

Also you will notice once again in Heb 12:24 that Jesus is a mediator of the covenant making that order God, Jesus and the people (church). Just as God has established the order of marriage in 1 Cor 11:3 God, Christ, man and woman. No state or government stands between God and the church and no state or government should stand between husband and wife.

The topic of this thread is that of Biblical marriage not obeying every ordinance of man. God’s word doesn’t provide for license it does however say this Matt 19: 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh...

God establish marriages and doesn’t give any man jursidiction over it. Matt 19:6 ...What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Acts 5: 29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

 

I move to close the thread accordingly, as it appears what little fruit this thread produces has long since been harvested. Of course, my vote is strictly advisory

 

I vote with Johnv. It's all been said over and over!

Diane

 

Whether in rebellion or no, it is still marriage in God's sight as His Word clearly reveals.

 

You are absolutely right. There is nothing more to say. Scripture has been given to support marriage by covenant and to show what Biblical marriage is in God's sight.

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

 

God's word does not provide for a speed limit or a side of the road to drive one, but you are permitted to break neither on your way to the God ordained institution of church.

As I have pointed out, you have an inherent inconsistency. You are willing to accept jurisdiction over the God ordained institution of the church, but not over the God ordained institution of marriage. That doesn't make sense if you think through it ...

God did give man some jurisdiction over it. He permitted divorce at the instigation of men.

Furthermore, as I have pointed out, obtaining a marriage license where required is violating no laws of God.

 

Remarkable ... You are condoning rebellion against God??? Don't forget the words of Samuel to Saul. God wants obedience more than anything else.

 

Was Christ married?? I missed his example in this area ... and I am not sure how marriage is suffering. Very interesting logic you use here ...

And correct me if I am wrong, isn't the the same Christ who said to Render to Caesar the thing that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's?? I am pretty sure that a marriage license is something that belongs to Caesar and in obedience to Christ, you are to render it to him.

 

I am merely stating a biblical fact. There were men who took wives against the will of God. Even so, God saw them as married. You can accuse me all you want, but you cannot deny this fact.

 

I am merely stating a biblical fact. There were men who took wives against the will of God. Even so, God saw them as married. You can accuse me all you want, but you cannot deny this fact. </font>[/QUOTE]But at the risk of pointing out the obvious (and hopefully ending my participation in this), they took wives, they did not just start living together. They fulfilled the biblical and legal necessities of wife-taking. Anything short of both of those is problemmatic. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I hope no one here has gotten "married" without fulfilling the legal requirements for marriage. Who knows ... I haven't asked and for good reason.

 

Walls, and Grace1998, would you be kind enough to give Scripture passage to the "covenant marriage" you are talking about?

As for me, I remember a covenant relationship existing in the Old Testament between God and His chosen people, first the patriarchs of the Jewish people, and later the nation of Israel herself. I would be very interested to learn about this "covenant marriage" you are referring to.

 

Here here brother Barnabas.
Murph

 

How did this get strung out to 7 pages?

 

Maybe 8 if Walls and Grace can answer the question posed by Barnabas.
Murph

 

Walls had posted this in an earlier post.

Diane

 

Was Judah married to his daughter in law(remember she dressed like a prostitute to lure him to giving her a son), no. Was Lot married to his daughters, no. Solomon had concubines, (400, I believe it was), was he married to them, no, other wise it would say he had 1,100 wives, no concubines.
Just haveing s*x, is just having s*x, not being married.
As has been stated previously, render unto Ceasar, we are also told to obey our goverment( a marriage license is not in disagreement or in violation of scripture). Therefore people without a marriage and a license(obedience to goveremnt) are living in sin, they are not married, but just having s*x for the sake of having s*x. No commitment needed for a rut in the hay.
This very thing also gives has to admit(if marriage is only by agreement to have s*x) that gay and lesbian long term relationships are valid as a married couple. It does not have to be legal in any state, they simply set up house together and claim theiy are married.
Nope, scripture disagrees with the whole comcept.

 

Sorry Diane, but in the quote you posted from Walls, it does not shed any light on the "covenant marriage" thingy. Those Bible verses are in reference to a covenant relationship between God and His chosen people - of which I was aluding to in my earlier post. I have read that post, but if that is all there is in relation to a "covenant marriage" then that is a very bad exegesis of the Bible. I am sorry for saying that.