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Bill Ayers Says Obama Was ‘Family Friend’

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Revmitchell, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    I appreciate you doing your part, but that does not negate the fact that the United States should not be involved in foreign wars unless we are attacked.
     
  2. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    I disagree that the only criteria for us to engage in a war is to be attacked. We could certainly not honor our treaties with such a strict limitation. We could not defend our interests with such firm boundaries. We have engaged in war whenever we believed the cause was justified and the alternatives exhausted or unavailalbe. I think the reasons given for the Viet Nam war completely justified it.

    What's most unfortunate about the Viet Nam war is how we let it end - not that we were engaged in it. Our failure to finish what we started hurt our credibility for generations to come. Our insistence upon discrediting the reasons for the war did nothing but help our enemies of that time and forever cast doubt upon the service of millions of Americans who did the right thing. It elevated the traitors, deserters, and protesters - those who brought dishonor to our nation - to an undeserved status of "honor" deemed by some to even be superior to those who served. The result is stolen valor!

    We also failed to honor our committments to our friends in Viet Nam and chose to leave them to our enemies because we were "tired" of the yet unfished war. No doubt the final loss in battle was theirs - not ours as we'd long left them behind - but we stood by and watched refusing to even fund supplies and ammunition while our greater enemies poured assistance to the opporessors from the North.

    This was all are a great shame to America. Those who fought on behalf of America deserved to have their cause justified.

    I have continued this fight my entire life and will do so until I die.
     
  3. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    You fail to understand the people of Viet Nam including their education or their desire for respresentative government.
     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    If Obama bails out of Iraq the blood bath there will be worse than in Viet Nam and Cambodia after the US pulled out. Expect Israel to nuke Iran!
     
  5. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    I agree it will be bad in Iraq if we pull out before we should. I hate that for the sake of all concerned including the veterans of this war who should be honored for their service by giving honor to the cause for which they've been fighting.
     
  6. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Hard to think my assessment is wrong with the number of South Vietnamese who were our allies by day and Charlie by night. Who you really sabotage/undermine/subvert your friends if you want what they have to offer?

    The general support for the war was in Saigon and a few of the major cities, the villagers just wanted to be left alone. What the heck does a guy whose total life possessions consist of a grass hut, piece of land and his family care about what type of government they have? Perhaps I overstated by saying uneducated but education was limited and shallow in the villages until the North came with communism classes.

    The villagers had a village chief and that was government to them.
     
  7. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    I do agree that the Viet Nam war was a disaster in the way it was handled. If we are in a war, we should do everything necessary to win or not get involved at all.
     
  8. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    For starters, we should let the generals do what their trained to do. Why send the 4 star general to war college then run the war from the white house?
     
  9. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    The number of South Vietnamese who were members of the Viet Cong or who supported them was relatively small. It is popular myth that implies “all” or “most” were VC by night and friendly by day. Some who did live a double life were drafted into it and forced by intimidation to serve. A few were diehard communists. Most were young men and a few young women with little choice in the matter.

    The greater problem was aggression from the North against the South by the North Vietnamese. This aggression was supported with large amounts of help from big brother communist nations. The young men and women sent South to fight were indoctrinated with all manner of falsehoods regarding both the cause and the status of the South. People who lived in the South knew better.

    There was certainly a degree of apathy and distrust in the South Vietnamese government by the citizens of the South. There was a problem with corruption and incompetence. There was a legacy of bureaucracy from the French era in both civil and military organization as well as society in general. We attempted to model all aspects of their government and military after our own. It wasn’t a perfect transition. But, hey, it seems that's similar to what we had and have as well albeit in different ways and degrees!

    It is true that some residents - both in the cities and in the countryside - didn't care very much about politics except to the extent it directly affected them. That's also the same here as well! But support for democracy was not at all limited to Sai Gon nor to just the cities. Given the choice in a free election there's no doubt what form of government people would have chosen. What particular political leaders they would have chosen is another matter!

    The people of South Vietnam generally wanted freedom and to have a government that represented them. They were not at all trusting of communism. That is evidence by the direction in which they fled when forced by battles or when given the choice to migrate. They fought for freedom and many of them suffered greatly for that cause. They fought hard – much more than popular history has revealed. All men inherently desire freedom! The rural farmers in our own nation might not have had much more than a shack, a mule, a plow, some land, and a bunch of kids but they sure valued their freedom and would fight for it. Vietnamese were and are no different.

    The Viet Minh who and later the Viet Cong in the South learned after the end of the war exactly where they really stood with the North Vietnamese. Many of them ended up going to re-education camps themselves right along with the South Vietnamese deemed a threat to the new foreign rulers!

    Vietnamese have enjoyed a relatively high level of literacy for a long time. There were schools throughout the South long before the North Vietnamese took over. They were not backwards uneducated people incapable of understanding the benefits of self governance. They were not all fooled by the false ideology of communism. In fact they’ve been smart enough to make some wins over it even in the face of a military defeat and years of attempted communist indoctrination. Communism is flawed – not the people of Viet Nam.
     
  10. Dragoon68

    Dragoon68 Active Member

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    On this we agree completely!
     
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