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Birth control and Christian colleges.

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Paul33, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    The bottom line is still this: there is no scriptural support for the idea that one is required to continually have as many children as possible until one becomes barren. There is only scriptural suport to have children.
     
  2. Circuitrider

    Circuitrider <img src=/circuitrider2.JPG>
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    As to the issue of schools teaching or not teaching on birth control, when I was attending Maranatha College (1968-70) our student body chaplain (an "old" married student) actually gave us single dorm students a challenge against birth control in student body chapel. :eek: So maybe that qualifies as one instance of a school teaching birth control. [​IMG]
     
  3. superdave

    superdave New Member

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  4. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Maybe you only have two arrows because you're spending too much time out in the woods instead of with your wife! [​IMG]

    Personally, I'd rather be with my wife than sitting in a tree somewhere freezing my ... [​IMG]

    And as to your "Old Covenant" reference. Dispensationalist! [​IMG]

    There is no Scriptural support for viewing children as a burden, either. Trusting God in the area of reproduction doesn't mean that God is required to grant you 19 children.

    Enjoyed your thoughts. Now get out of that tree and go spend some time with your wife. :D
     
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Quivers (arrow bundles) for Henry V's archers at Agincourt were 40. Most had THREE bundles per man.

    NO THANK YOU!!

    Trying to think of which version says, "As arrows are in the hand of an archer, so are children in the arms of a young man. Happy is that man, though he might quiver at the thought . . .

    :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  6. foxrev

    foxrev New Member

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    Paul33 has driven us, again, to the heart of the matter and away from the letter of the law to the spirit of the law(Don't worry, the ice is much thicker there).

    Children are a joy and blessing FROM GOD. The physical union of husband and wife is a blessing FROM GOD. ENJOY! Too many of us have been enamored with the worlds view of "It's my body and I can do what I want to with it!" Sorry, it isn't. God says that the physical union of a husband and wife is Holy, to be uniterrupted, unless agreed upon for a time.

    Leave the results up to God. Gentlemen, you know full well, you can plant all the seed you want to, but GOD gives life. This is not an antedeluvian view, rather a TIMELESS TRUTH. Leave it up to Him. BE THOU RAVISHED ALWAYS WITH HER LOVE - and her body! Let her be with yours as well. Simple as that. Read Proverbs 5:15-19.

    This is also a remedy/preventive for Christains and Preachers watching and looking at pornography. How many marriages would be a LOT better off if Husband and wife fully enjoyed without the "Fear" of a child being born?
     
  7. joyfulkeeperathome

    joyfulkeeperathome New Member

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    my husband is realizing more and more every month that it is not us who creates a child, it is God. Why not just leave it in His hands, He has plans for us, plans to do good to us and not evil!!!!
     
  8. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    You have just made a wonderful argument for birth control. There are many reasons why a man and his wife might not be in a position to have children. If they have to abstain to prevent it, then they are not following the biblical teaching about it (abstaining only for prayer). To have freedom to enjoy God's creation is a great argument against every thing you have said.

    It is just strange to hear it from you, after all you have said here.
     
  9. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Boy, did you turn that one on its head.

    Your response shows that you don't get the "theology" behind trusting God in the area of reproduction.

    "There are many reasons why a man and his wife might not be in a position to have children." And if they are valid, God is able to withhold his "blessings." But usually they are just "man's" reasons instead of God's will. [​IMG]

    If you've never adopted this lifestyle, you have no idea how freeing it is. Free to be who God created us to be, free to walk with him, free to trust him in every area of life, free to be blessed with an abundant life, free to not worry. As opposed to striving to make ends meet, wondering if the car will be big enough, worried about work and pay, worried about promotions, worried about figuring it all out.

    Trusting God and enjoying life to the glory of God is just so much more fun!
     
  10. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Paul33, how free will you feel when you're MY age and have 34 kids? God also gave us the sense to know when our house if full.

    I cannot tell you how many 'accidents' I've heard of in families with 6 or 7 children where mom is letting the 7 year old watch toddlers while she nurses infants. One 2 year old climbed into the kitchen sink, turned on the hot water and had 3rd degree burns in her diaper area! One lady I know here in Georgia had her infant taken away from her for a year over a silly incident. Now she has a 'watcher' that is sent to watch her raise her children! To get the baby back, the judge suggested strongly she put her other 4 in public school.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    No it doesn't. It shows how weak that argument is. When the argument works equally well for either position, it is a bad argument. I know exactly what it means to trust God for reproduction. I am very familiar with the theology of it. I simply pointed out a bad argument.

    No, not at all. And God, when it is his will, can override birth control. Why not trust God that way? God expects you to be wise, not foolish.

    None of which has any bearing on birth control. The fact remains that the Bible does not say anything about birth control. It does talk about the blessing of children and the control of God. It also talks about stewardship and wisdom.

    Well, it is certianly more fun that its alternative of not trusting God and enjoying life to the glory of God. But that has nothing to do with birth control.
     
  12. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    dianetavegia,

    Do you really think that God is going to give me 34 kids? [​IMG]

    And how many accidents happen in families with two children.

    On the news last night was the story of a boy who almost died riding his atv. His parents, doctors, didn't know how dangerous this activity could be!

    But if the same accident happens on a farm with 9 children in the family, DHR is called and the children "watched."

    You too, keep missing the point. Sexual intercourse doesn't guarantee pregnancy. Trusting God doesn't mean having 34 kids.

    BTW, you mentioned breastfeeding on demand doesn't stop ovulation for some. I've been thinking about that and wondering if prescriptions, body chemistry based on diet, etc. might not have something to do with that. There's no way for me to know, but it might be a contributing factor.

    Thanks for the thoughts.
     
  13. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Pastor Larry,

    The bible mentions "pharmakoi" in Revelation 22:15.

    Modern translations miss the meaning behind this term. Pharmakoi are the ones practicing drugs or potions. Now put this term in context with the rest of the verse.

    Outside are the dogs, those who practice drugs/potions, the sexually immoral, the murderers!

    Pharmakia is abortifacient drugs! Outside are those who use abortifacient drugs along with their sexually immoral conduct to avoid the consequences of their actions. They take drugs to murder their own children! They are idolaters of the worst kind, loving themselves above anything else, loving and practicing falsehood.

    In contrast to this we have the testimony of Jesus: "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

    While you are killing your offspring through pharmaceuticals, I am the Root and Offspring of David! I am alive! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End (22:13).

    Now who do you want to emulate? Jesus or the dogs outside?

    Who or what do you want to submit to? Jesus or your own understandings (falsehoods)?

    I find it very interesting that these verses are found in the last book of the Bible dealing with an age when Jesus will come again! An age of medical technology that will allow us to play the role of God, deciding who lives and dies, deciding when someone is even born!

    Satan has done his best to abort the Messiah through genicide of the Hebrews, attempt on Mary's life, attempt on the children of Judah's kings, etc. But he has failed! But that doesn't mean he is going to stop trying to prevent life or destroy life. He is the great deceiver, and if he can get humanity to view conception as something humanity can control, he will do it.

    And he will use that attitude to bring about "wanted" and "unwanted" children as well as races of people. Eugenics, abortion, infanticide, euthanasia are all symptoms of that attitude that "birth control" creates in the mind of those who practice it.

    Birth control was never condoned throughout church history until the 1930s, when the seed of Darwinism and his cousin's teaching on eugenics, finally found acceptance in the Episcopal church. Soon the "progress of man" spilled over into all of the denominations so that we don't even question the practice of birth control. In fact, we tell those who do, that they aren't using common sense or their minds!

    Practicing falsehood without even knowing it! That's where most of the church is today. Why? They don't know their history! They don't understand Revelation 22:15. :confused:

    [ October 28, 2004, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Paul33 ]
     
  14. joyfulkeeperathome

    joyfulkeeperathome New Member

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    It seriously comes down to this (I have said this before, but believes that it bears repeating.) If you believe that pregnancy (the creation of a new life and soul) is just biological, then there would be no problem with using non-abortant birth controls. But, if you believe that God creates each new life and soul (as do I and this is what I see as taught in the Bible - study out the patriarch's families), then birth control is non-essential b/c you will only get pregnant when God wants you to get pregnant and you will only have the number of children that God wants you to have and that He will provide for!!!! This is a choice that each person must make.
     
  15. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    God is the creator and sustainer of life. God wants to bless and heal you.

    Satan is the destroyer and withholder of life. Satan wants to curse and afflict you.

    If these premises are true, where does "birth control" fit?
     
  16. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Please tell me thsi was an attempt at humor. I am not even going to dignify this with a response.

    The term in question has to do with magic arts. It has absolutely nothing to do with medical drugs or birth control. This is so far from reality, you have to be joking.

    If you will show where Jesus forbade the use of birth control, then I will gladly follow him. Until then, you are simply giving your own opinion which is fine ... it simply isn't mandatory for everyone else.

    I find it strange that you would even bring up such an idea.

    Nonsense ... Utter nonsense.
     
  17. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    I knew you would come back with "magic arts" as your lame excuse out.

    Magic arts, sorcery, witchcraft all revolved around potions and drugs. Anyone involved with homeopathic remedies can tell you that there are potions that can be made to induce abortion, just like morning after pills of today.

    Pharmakia refers to drugs and potions whether used in sorcery or not.

    The context is so plain that you have to force yourself to miss it. Potions/sexual immorality/murder. And the very next verse refers to Jesus being the Offspring of David!

    Blind as a bat!

    As for my last statment and your reply of nonsense. I can tell that you have no first hand experience in the literature of that period.

    The blind leading the blind.
     
  18. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Around the world today, if Jesus were to return, what would he find? The mindless slaughter of millions every day to the god of self.

    What is the number one killer of children today? You got it. The abortifacient birth control pill.

    And if that doesn't work, or we just get pregnant with an unwanted child, we pay an abortionist to murder the child. 4 MILLION a year in America alone.

    Millions of murders are taking place around the world today in the name of self-idolatry. We have bought the lie of Satan to Eve in the garden. We indeed are like God, granting life here, taking life there, preventing life overthere.

    Immorality has sky-rocketed since we severed procreation from the sex act.

    Sexual immorality is rampant because there are no consequences to having sex outside of marriage. Use birth control, and if that doesn't work, get an abortion.

    And the Christian Church stands by in silence.

    But we've done worse than that. We condone in our own marriages the very tool that Satan has used to bring about the murders of millions.

    And we say that we are being "wise."
     
  19. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Pastor Larry,

    My interpretation of the words that you called nonsense are the words of JESUS.

    Revelation 22:12-16 are the words of Jesus referencing the fact that he is coming again!

    Blessed are those who wash their robes.
    Outside are the dogs.
     
  20. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Paul33, I would assume you consider any medical assistance in becoming pregnant sinful also. Am I correct?
     
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