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Bishop John Spong re-thinks Heaven & Hell

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by lori4dogs, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    There is just so much that is disturbing in the following article. John Shelby Spong is still a bishop in good standing in the Episcopal Church. Even though retired, he is part of an organization that still claims to be Christian. He dismisses Hell which Jesus referenced I believe twenty-seven times. He also dismisses heaven and the need of a savior! Dismissing Hell alone dismisses Jesus in my book.

    Within this article we find: “We’re so excited about this opportunity to have this wise man in our midst and to hear his new thoughts,” said Maxine Clarke Beach, Dean of the theological school and a former official with the General Council on Ministries of the United Methodist Church."

    Do we really know that much about heaven & hell? Especially if we hold to 'sola scriptura'? I heard someone say once that what we think we know about heaven & hell 'is actually medieval culture and art.' Your thoughts?

    http://www.theird.org/Page.aspx?pid=1456
     
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Anyone who calls himself a "bishop" nowadays, and wears a clerical collar must be related to the RCC. :laugh:
     
  3. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    John Spong makes the average liberal look like Jerry Falwell.

    Spong is beyond liberal. He's purely apostate.
     
  4. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    Personally, I think it is time for him to lose the 'purple shirt & collar' and don regular shirt and tie like other Unitarian-Universalists.
     
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I suppose what he wears at this point is irrelevant. The United Methodist is apostate, and has been for some time. Are they not the ones that not only approved female pastors, but also countenanced homosexual unions if not clergy as well.
    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/72715_minister31.shtml
     
    #5 DHK, Apr 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2010
  6. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    The UMC really is a mixed bag. There are some incredibly liberal UMC churches, but there are also many conservative UMC churches.

    Sure, they ordain female clergy, but on many other matters, you will find many conservative Methodists.

    The UMC, however, rejects gay unions and gay clergy. The conservative faction is strong enough for now to prevent a change in this area. The African UMC delegates are also instrumental in preventing a change in this area.
     
  7. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Pretty strong words indeed.

    Do you feel that a purgatory would dismiss the sufficiency of Jesus' cross to thoroughly cleanse a soul from sin?

    :jesus:
     
  8. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    Not at all. Purgatory is about 'theosis' not about the sufficiency of the Atonement. Let's not turn this into yet another thread on Purgatory.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

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    Did he first toss out the creation account found in Gen 1-2:3? I think the answer to that is "yes".

    Having done so - is it that unthinkable that he might also choose to toss out the heaven and hell teaching of scripture?

    There is a lot of teaching on the subject of both heaven and hell in the NT.

    But you are right that in addition to what we find in scripture itself there is a lot of Greek mythology that leaked into Christian thinking in the dark ages.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    The refusal of the Episcopal House of Bishops to depose this man speaks volumes as to the real rot in this denomination than the election of partnered gay and lesbian bishops.

    Spong may not believe in Hell now, but he will when he gets there.
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Active Member

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    I have a current thread in this section that speaks about 4 major areas of rebellion that lead to the judgment of God on the earth. Three of them are the Lev 18 issue of the promotion of the gay agenda and abortion - another one mentioned there is the issue of evolution.

    I believe it is a consistent pattern - that no church leaps off the cliff of promoting gay issues without first rejecting the God of Creation as described in Gen 1:2-2:3 and Ex 20:8-11.

    Given enough time - promoting the gay agenda will be a logical step on the downward path that first begins with the position in favor of evolution. It is just a matter of time.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    You may be right, Bob, the Episcopal Church has long held that "the stories of creation in Genesis should not be understood as historical and scientific accounts of origins but as proclamations of basic theological truths about creation."
     
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Please elaborate...(don't want to derail your thread, just wondering what you mean here)

    :jesus:
     
  14. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    Purgatory is a state in which already saved souls (by faith in Christ sacrifice) are cleansed (the final theosis) of the 'temporal effects of sin before they see God.' In Revalation 21:27 it becomes evident that 'nothing unclean enters heaven.'
     
  15. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Interjecting thought..the RCC has the most abberant teaching known to be called Christian. For a RC to balk on Spong's heresy is the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.
     
  16. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    While the RCC obviously has major, major flaws, it is far more biblical than Spong. Spong isn't even in the same time zone as biblical.
     
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Already saved or not. They aren't cleansed enough to enter into heaven leaving one with the only possible conclusion that the blood of Jesus was not sufficient enough to cleanse them "enough" to get to heaven.

    Thus my belief: (conclusion), that the RCC does not believe that Christ died for their sins. They believe that perhaps Christ died for some of their sins and that they have to help Christ along by spending time in purgatory by paying the other part that he was unable to pay on the cross. It is quite blasphemous. To question Christ's words: "IT is finished," is blasphemous. His work was finished on the cross! Why must you add to it by trying to purge yourself even more in purgatory. Can't you see the futility of this belief?
     
  18. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    I tend to consider the Antichrist worse than Spong, but that is just me. Also, a group that murdered millions of people is worse thatn Spong.
     
  19. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    The blood of Jesus is EXACTLY what cleanses these souls from temporal sin. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus died for ALL our sins. Your conclusion is in error. So much for keeping this thread to the OP.
     
  20. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    Anti-Catholic bigotry raises it's ugly head again!
     
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