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Bishops

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Lorelei, Aug 2, 2001.

  1. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    How come Baptist churches (at least the ones I am familiar with) do not have "Bishops"? Or are we saying that the Bishop is our "Pastor" and if so, why the change in terminology?

    ~Lorelei
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Various Greek words describe the different "ministries" of the leader of the local assembly. Sadly, the baby-baptizing anglicans who mistranslated the AV1611 decided to use common terms (actually they were ORDERED to use them by the rules) such as bishop, church, baptize, etc.

    Simple distinction in the roles: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>~poimen (KJV pastor) = shepherd of a flock
    ~presbuteros (KJV elder) = senior, honored experienced member
    ~episcopos (KJV bishop) = superintendent of an organization or work force
    ~kayrux (KJV preacher) = herald/proclaimer of God's truth to the church
    ~deaconos (KJV minister or deacon) = servant of the church<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So while it is all talking about ONE PERSON, the various "hats" or roles that person plays include:
    shepherd
    elder statesman
    foreman
    preacher
    servant


    Big shoes for ONE MAN to fill. But that is what God demands.
     
  3. Stephen

    Stephen New Member

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    Doc ... where does Trustee fit in here?
     
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    NOWHERE! :eek:

    Actually, that was an outdate (KJV? [​IMG]) term for the legal guardian of a non-profit organization.

    Federal Law united all 50 states in 1992 with rules as to the Board of Directors of such corporations. Sadly, many ifb churches are so out of the loop that they do not know or have not yet complied with the law.

    All the feds want is that a non-profit group actually have some folks responsible that it is fulfilling its incorporation and constitution and bylaws. They must keep it honest and are the only ones who can make decisions.

    When we revised (1993) our constitution, we simply said that the elected officers of the church are the Board of Directors. After the annual election, the Board met, elected a president (pastor) and secy (clerk) and made one motion - to allow the total church body to make all decisions. Then adjourned.

    Did that every year. Took less than 3 minutes but fulfilled the govt duty (as we as christians should strive to do).

    Therefore, there is NO NEED FOR TRUSTEES in the modern legal set-up. If you want folks for the building, grounds, mundane stuff - I suggest you for committees. BUT don't give them that title of "trustee" of they might think they own the place!! :rolleyes:
     
  5. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    Thanks Dr. Bob! Now, if you will kindly go to my new post and give me ALL Those resources from which you gained all that knowledge, then I won't have to keep bugging you with silly questions all the time!! :D

    ~Lorelei
     
  6. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

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    I sure feel sorry for those poor, ignorant, uneducated and probably retarded translators of the KJV! They got just about everything wrong (at least according to Dr. Bob). It is really too bad Dr. Bob was not there to straighten them out about their "mistranslations!" While he is at it, perhaps Dr. Bob could also straighten out the publishers of just about every English language dictionary presently in print, for just about all of them agree with the KJV translator's word choices!<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Pastor: a shepherd. American Heritage Dictionary <LI>Elder: 1. An older person. 2. An older, influential member of a family, tribe, or community. 3. One of the governing officers of a church, often having pastoral or teaching functions. American Heritage Dictionary<LI>Bishop: Middle English bisshop, from Old English bisceop, from Late Latin episkopas, an overseer. Merrian-Websters<LI>Preacher: One who preaches, especially one who publicly proclaims the gospel. American Heritage<LI>Minister: one who functions as a minister of religion giving aid and assistance, as a servant. Meriam Webster<LI>Deacon: one who serves in worship, pastoral care, or administrative duties. Meriam Webster[/list]Dr. Bob, now that you have all those stoopid KJV translators (and KJV users) straightened out don't you think it is time to go after all those ignorant and stoopid dictionary publishers and users for agreeing with that terrible KJV&gt; [​IMG]

    [ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: Thomas Cassidy ]
     
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    You know me, Thomas, always trying to dig a little at confusing words! [​IMG]

    Actually, the definitions you gave are right on with the Greek ones I gave. They AMPLIFY the word from the English (KJ or otherwise). A "pastor" is from the root "shepherd", etc.

    We agree (of course) but don't tell anyone. And don't YOU wish you could have been on the translating committee of the AV instead of all those baby-baptizing Anglican priests? :eek:
     
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:
    Thanks Dr. Bob! Now, if you will kindly go to my new post and give me ALL Those resources from which you gained all that knowledge, then I won't have to keep bugging you with silly questions all the time!! :D

    ~Lorelei
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It's called the Greek New Testament and Abbott-Smith Lexicon (dictionary to define the terms). What else are you looking for? :confused:
     
  9. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    I am looking for anything that will help a lay-person understand!
    Thanks Thomas, now I am even more confused! *hehe* (No, really, I want any and ALL input here.)

    Ok, I got the definitions I THINK but is the elder (Bishop) the same as the Pastor or not???

    How come sometimes deacon was defined as servant and others as an office?

    What do I want..I want to know how we got from there (New Testament Church) to here (Baptist Church Structure)

    Ahhhh It's all too much for my lil' mind!!!

    ~Lorelei
    :confused:
     
  10. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:
    but is the elder (Bishop) the same as the Pastor or not??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes. The word "Bishop" speaks of the authority of the office of Pastor, IE, "overseer." The word "Elder" speaks of the dignity of the office, a mature man with the wisdom of the years. "Pastor" speaks of the function of the office, to lead and feed the flock. [​IMG] <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>How come sometimes deacon was defined as servant and others as an office?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The Pastor is to be a "servant" of the Lord and of the church, but there is also an office of deacon who is also a servant of the Lord and the church whose primary job is to take over the mundane tasks of the daily operation so the pastors can give themselves over to study and prayer. [​IMG] <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>What do I want..I want to know how we got from there (New Testament Church) to here (Baptist Church Structure).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think most of us are still there. The problem is that we have allowed non biblical "churches" to redefine the terms. I am the Bishop of First Baptist Church of Spring Valley. I serve as overseer. I have other men who assist me in the work here. Some hold the office of deacon, some have held pastoral positions. Two of my men, one a deacon and the other not, are former pastors or assistant pastors who help me in performing my pastoral duties. I have another two men who are deacons who take care of the buildings, grounds, etc., so I don't have to worry about it. [​IMG]
     
  11. Stephen

    Stephen New Member

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    Let’s continue this thought … can a man hold the position of Deacon and be divorced and remarried?

    Stephen
     
  12. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>

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    Sure if he is a "one woman man."
     
  13. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

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    Our church places the same restriction on deacons as we do on pastoral staff. No divorce/remarriage allowed by either the man or the woman. We believe the choicest servants of God should be examples in word and deed. [​IMG]
     
  14. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas Cassidy:
    Our church places . . . we do . . . We believe [​IMG]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Then that is the same fallacy decried by Dr. C in an early post - that we are allowing others to set the standards and definitions for us. We should look to the Word of God for the rule for faith and practice.

    (Thomas, we DO appreciate what you and your church do and the position you take. WE take the opposite. Rightness or wrongness of the position will find its answer in the Word!)
     
  15. ventin

    ventin New Member

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    i checked the KJV concordance and did not find the word missionary. so which root word did it came from?
     
  16. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:
    Then that is the same fallacy decried by Dr. C in an early post - that we are allowing others to set the standards and definitions for us. We should look to the Word of God for the rule for faith and practice.

    (Thomas, we DO appreciate what you and your church do and the position you take. WE take the opposite. Rightness or wrongness of the position will find its answer in the Word!)
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Wrong! (Again!) We believe in the independence and autonomy of the local church. Our church has studied the scriptures, sought the Lord's illumination, and made a cooperative decision on the matter. To say that is a fallacy is to violate the autonomy of the local church, one of the corner stones of the IFB faith! No Baptist Popes allowed!
     
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