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Blah blah upon blah blah or precept upon precept?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Anon1379, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. Anon1379

    Anon1379 Member

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    Isaiah 28:10–13 (LEB): For it is blah-blah upon blah-blah,
    blah-blah upon blah-blah,
    gah-gah upon gah-gah,
    gah-gah upon gah-gah,
    a little here, a little there.
    For he will speak with stammering and another tongue to this people, to whom he has said,
    “This is rest; give rest to the weary;
    and this is repose”; yet they were not willing to hear.
    And to them the word of Yahweh will be
    blah-blah upon blah-blah
    blah-blah upon blah-blah
    gah-gah upon gah-gah
    gah-gah upon gah-gah,
    a little here, a little there,
    so that they may go and stumble backward
    and be broken and ensnared and captured.

    Isaiah 28:10–13 (ESV): For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
    line upon line, line upon line,
    here a little, there a little.”
    11 For by people of strange lips
    and with a foreign tongue
    the Lord will speak to this people,
    12 to whom he has said,
    “This is rest;
    give rest to the weary;
    and this is repose”;
    yet they would not hear.
    13 And the word of the Lord will be to them
    precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
    line upon line, line upon line,
    here a little, there a little,
    that they may go, and fall backward,
    and be broken, and snared, and taken.

    The LEB stands alone in containing a rather curious translation here with a note saying "In this context, the Hebrew expressions tsaw-tsaw and qaw- was are likely meant to sound like baby talk, but they could mean "command upon command" and "rule upon rule." The NAC commentary and the UBS translation agrees with the LEB.

    The UBS says, "The Hebrew is tsaw latsaw tsaw latsaw, qaw laqaw qaw laqaw, ze‘er sham ze‘er sham. njb transliterates the Hebrew, but this is not very meaningful. frcl (1997) is more daring by using baby talk in French: “Listen to him: Blablabla, blablabla, et patati et patata” (similarly gecl in German). For languages in which there are no set words available for baby talk, reb provides a good model with “A babble of meaningless noises, mere sounds on every side!” We prefer this model, but a footnote should be added, explaining that the Hebrew words here are most likely babbling sounds made by babies. Other possible models for this verse are:
    • Truly, all he says is a jumble of meaningless words.
    • All we hear from him is like the babbling of a baby.
    • All he says is ‘Blah, blah, blah’ and other nonsense sounds.”

    The NAC says, "The message in v. 10 is made up of a series of monosyllables repeated several times. The meanings of these words are somewhat mysterious. (a) They could be the stuttering words of a drunk, which makes about as much sense as the babbling of an infant. (b) These words could be referring to letters of the alphabet, which a teacher might drill into the heads of students by repeating them again and again, thus showing the simplistic and pedantic nature of this repetitive and boring message. (c) Those who see these words as a mocking summary of Isaiah’s message view ṣaw as an abbreviated form of “commandment,” “filth,” or “vanity” and take qaw to mean “plumb line” or “rule.” Chapter 18 vv. 2 and 7 have already used qaw qaw as a means of describing speech that is unintelligible, so that influences the sense here.
    Since this commentary takes these strange repeated words in v. 10 as Isaiah’s derogatory description of the speaking of the ungodly prophets and priests (28:9), the first option fits best with the recurrence of these words in v. 13. Isaiah is saying that their babbling nonsensical repetition of words sounds like the gibberish of babies. The words should just be transliterated in the English text and given no meaning, demonstrating it as meaningless chatter."

    So what do y'all say? I personally think the LEB makes sense here, even though it does sound strange.
     
  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    This is IMO a display of ignorance.

    Most Hebrew words have a three letter root with 1, 2 or 3 vowels (Mostly 2) so to the non-Semitic ear many words would seem to have a "baby talk" sound when spoken.
     
    #2 HankD, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    For it is
    ‘Do and do, do and do;
    don’t and don’t, don’t and don’t.
    There, little one; there, little one.’
    Exactly! — with a stammering lips and with a different tongue
    he will speak to this people,
    to whom he said:
    ‘This is the place of rest.
    Give rest to the weary.
    And this is the place of repose.’
    And none was willing to hear.
    And Yahweh’s word to them will be:
    ‘Do and do, do and do;
    Don’t and don’t, don’t and don’t.
    There, little one; there, little one.’
    In order that they may go on and stumble backwards,
    and be broken and ensnared and captured.

    Alex Motyer, Isaiah, by the Day, a new devotional translation, 2011

    **************

    For it is filth-pilth, filth-pilth,
    vomit-momit, vomit-momit,
    a little here, a little there.
    For in a barbarous tongue
    and in an alien language
    He shall speak to this people
    to whom He said, “This is rest—leave it for the weary,
    and the word of the LORD became for them—
    filth-pith, filth-pilth,
    vomit-momit, vomit-momit,
    a little here, a little here.
    So that they should walk and stumble backward,
    and be broken, snared, and trapped.
    Therefore, hear the word of the LORD,
    men of mockery,
    rulers of this people
    who are in Jerusalem.

    Robert Alter, Isaiah, 2019

    note: “Wildly divergent interpretations have been proposed for these words. The literal sense would seem to be: “ precept precept, line line.” But if precepts are at issue here, they are precepts that have been turned into gibberish by these drunkards. The phonetic kinship between tsaw, precept or command, and tso’ah, filth or excrement, and between qaw, line, and qi’, vomit, is surely not accidental. The translation seeks to convey both this correspondence and the effect of gibberish.” RA
     
    #3 Deacon, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    other languages share this quality with Semitic tongues.

    that doesn't mean Hebrew is easy.
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Isaiah 28:10–13 (LEB):
    10 For it is blah-blah upon blah-blah,
    blah-blah upon blah-blah,
    gah-gah upon gah-gah,
    gah-gah upon gah-gah,
    a little here, a little there.

    11 For he will speak with stammering and another tongue to this people,

    12 to whom he has said,
    “This is rest; give rest to the weary;
    and this is repose”; yet they were not willing to hear.

    13 And to them the word of Yahweh will be
    blah-blah upon blah-blah
    blah-blah upon blah-blah
    gah-gah upon gah-gah
    gah-gah upon gah-gah,
    a little here, a little there,
    so that they may go and stumble backward
    and be broken and ensnared and captured.

    The footnotes provided help explain the passage but it still seems to me to be poor. The LEB is sliding down my list of comparison bibles, below the NET and NKJV.

    For comparison, here is the NET version of verse 10:

    28:10 Indeed, they will hear meaningless gibberish,
    senseless babbling,
    a syllable here, a syllable there.
     
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