Bo BOTH Cals/Arms Affirm We MUST excercise Saving Faith To become Christians?

Winman · May 18, 2011

Allan said: ↑

I have no clue what you are getting here regarding my post. Are you addressing my post as though it disagrees with you? If so, please read it again.

While there is much I disagree with you on, in this we both seem to be saying the same thing
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No, I knew you agreed. I was simply adding to the points you made.

Alive in Christ · May 19, 2011

Here is some excellant material regarding this topic...

There are several problems with the belief that regeneration precedes faith:

1) It does not theologically comprehend the nature of justification.

2) It does not theologically comprehend the correlation between regeneration and sanctification.

3) It is not sufficiently “cross-centered” or “Christocentric”.

4) It actually downplays the seriousness and nature of man’s deadness in sin.

5) It does not seriously consider the necessity and implications of union with Jesus Christ with regards to all spiritual blessings.

The Bible is clear that we are justified by faith in Jesus Christ. Not even Calvinists will argue with that. One only needs to read Rom. 3:21-5:21 and Gal. 3 to plainly establish that God justifies on the basis of faith. What is comprehended in justification? Justification is the act of God by which he forgives us of our sins and declares us righteous.

This forgiveness and righteousness rests solely on the merits of Christ’s blood, and is enjoyed only by those who come to be in union with Him.

Consider the following passages,

“Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.” (Rom. 5:1,2 NIV)

“Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!” (Rom. 5:9, 10 NIV)

“This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in his blood.” (Rom. 3:22-25 NIV- emphasis mine)

“Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory” (Eph. 1:13, 14 NIV- emphasis added)

“..so that Christ might dwell in your hearts through faith.” (Eph. 3:17 NIV- emphasis mine)
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http://evangelicalarminians.org/node/29

convicted1 · May 19, 2011

JesusFan said: ↑

just asking this, as some seem to believe that one can be actually saved, going to heaven, and NOT exercise their own personal faith?

That God eithers gives the faith, so that they do NOTHING to get saved, or else gets them to heaven even IF never exercised faith in this life?
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John 8: 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Heb. 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

You can not be saved except you believe that Jesus is the Son of God. That He laid in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights, rose up on that third and appointed morning, victorious over death, hell and the grave.

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So without exercising your faith, you will die in your sins, and where He is, you will not go.

i am I AM's!!

Willis

convicted1 · May 19, 2011

convicted1 said: ↑

John 8: 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Heb. 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

You can not be saved except you believe that Jesus is the Son of God. That He laid in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights, rose up on that third and appointed morning, victorious over death, hell and the grave.

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So without exercising your faith, you will die in your sins, and where He is, you will not go.

i am I AM's!!

Willis
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Oh, and FTR, this faith comes from God. Man does not garner this on his own, but is extended to them by God.

JesusFan · May 19, 2011

Winman said: ↑

JF, you are starting to understand properly now. Faith must precede regeneration, because you cannot be free of your sins until you believe and are justified. You cannot be spiritually alive while you are still in your sins, it is your sin that causes death (the wages of sin is death).

You cannot be regenerated for even one millisecond before faith or you would be a born again sinner! This is impossible, yet many Reformed teach a person can be regenerated for years, even decades before trusting Christ. This would be a person who is spiritually alive AND spiritually dead in sins for years! You can easily see how nonsensical this view is.

Jesus said the DEAD can hear his voice, and they (the dead) that HEAR (believe) SHALL (afterward) live. (Jn 5:25).

It is the removal of your sins that makes you alive. Sin causes you to be separated from God ( spiritual death). The moment you are justified your sins are removed and you are no longer separated from God but reconciled. But you must first believe to be justified, all scripture says this.

Keep studying.
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Still see though that it is the Lord who , by His grace exercised towards the sinner that has been elected to receive Christ by God, who has his will"unbound" by God, God grants means to "have a change of Mind" and than the person can turn to Christ and be saved...

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