Boasting

Amen, you can boast that you understand and know Him. I'm glad we finally agree!:wavey:

 

Luke 18:

13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' 14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

 

Here are some others which say the same thing:

Matthew 18:4
Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

James 4:10
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

1 Peter 5:5
Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

1 Peter 5:6
Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.

Daniel 10:12
"Don't be afraid, Daniel," he said to me, "for from the first day that you purposed to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your prayers were heard. I have come because of your prayers.

 

And?

What do those passages have to do with the other? We all affirm salvation comes from the Lord.

Psalm 149:4
For the LORD takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with salvation.

We also affirm that salvation is not of ourselves, but from him. Even faith itself is an ability granted to us by God...faith comes through hearing God's message of reconciliation. So, these passages say nothing that address our points of contention.

Deal with the verses I presented about humbling yourself. Why doesn't it say "God humbles us" instead?

 

I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that I'm the most humble person I know! :tongue3:

 

An implication you presume upon "free will theology," just as if I claimed anti-evangelism was intrinsically contained in Calvinistic theology.

1. This statement begs the question by presuming the passivity of man in salvation, a point up for debate.

2. We agree with 1 Cor. 1:30 that our being in Christ is a work of God, just not irresistibly so.

3. And scripture is very clear that if one goes to hell and perishes it is due to their unbelief, so in that manner it does "always come down to the person's act of faith."

 

So am I.

Psalm 149:4
For the LORD takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with salvation.

 

Earth, Wind and Fire,

See, what you need to understand is that humility can lead one to faith. This is why Jesus points to a child and calls men to humble themselves as a child in order to enter his kingdom. Why else would Jesus speak of the difficulty of a rich or intelligent man entering heaven? Those who are rich and intelligent often struggle with pride (something God hates), and very often cannot ever seem to "humble themselves." This is why God teaches that it is more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom.

If it is all about unconditional election and effectual callings the youth/humility of a child wouldn't matter, nor would the pride of riches.

 

Agreed, which is why we affirm that we NEED Him in order to be saved. That is NOT our point of contention.

Agreed.

Agreed. No one is arguing we are doing this by ourselves. Try to stick to our points of contention, otherwise we just go in circles.

Correct. And what are the means God uses to humble men? Law, Holy Spirit, Gospel, Envy, Miracles

Again, not one of these means is "irresistible" but they are necessary to bring about the change in the heart. So, let's talk about our point of contention now, ok?

 

That argument might hold some weight if experience backed it up. Truth is that children are MUCH more receptive to the teaching of the gospel. There attitude is much less prideful and arrogant and stubborn than that of adults when confronting them with the concept of sin and repentance. Statistics of current believers coming to know Christ as a child also bare this out.

It is the same reason Jesus speaks of the difficulty of a rich man entering the kingdom. Rich are notoriously prideful and lack humility. The ability of them to humble themselves is far more unlikely than that of a poor slave or broken prostitute at the end of their rope.

You just can't get around all the times that the scripture calls people to "humble themselves," but you want to dismiss that as being a call only to those who have already been saved. These verses contradict that view:

Psalm 149:4
For the LORD takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with salvation. [notice it doesn't say "humility is the crown of those saved."]

Job 22:29 When men are brought low and you say, 'Lift them up!' then he will save the downcast.

Luke 18:14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." [Clearly, Jesus equates "being justified" (saved) with being "exalted." A result of the one who "humbles himself."